Dr. Rob Cooley: Listen and Save the World

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Welcome to Tomorrow Makers, where we explore how we learn, live, work and play now and

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in the future.

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I am Sumer Beatty.

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And I'm Carlos Ramos.

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Hi.

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Hello.

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We're back.

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We are.

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Thanks for, thanks for coming back, everybody.

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Well, I'm just going to thank you for coming back.

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Oh yeah, of course I'd be here.

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I love this.

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We have Rob Cooley today.

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Dr. Rob Cooley.

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Dr. Rob Cooley.

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Dr. Rob Cooley.

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Dr. Rob Cooley.

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Dr. Rob Cooley.

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Dr. Rob Cooley.

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Dr. Rob Cooley, associate professor of anthropology and environmental science at Penn College.

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We've, we were just talking about, if we go back to that, that first episode when we're

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talking about Nate and we're like the length of these titles and like, it seemed like his

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was long, but I'm like, this is, I think syllable per word, Rob's got them.

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He does.

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Is there a cap here?

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Should we initiate?

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For purposes of our podcast, can we initiate a cap on syllables?

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Oh my goodness.

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These titles are long.

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I mean, in a nutshell, Rob's just awesome.

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He is.

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That's, that's awesome.

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So us Rob, like that's all.

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Yeah.

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If you've had Rob, you know how awesome he is.

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If you haven't had Rob, you need to, you need to take one of Rob's classes.

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And if you're not a Penn College student to take one of Rob's classes, then you need to

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become a Penn College student.

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Yeah.

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So even if you're like not college age, just come in, you know, do your one class.

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Yeah.

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So there's the pitch.

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That's all.

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Yeah.

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So what makes Rob so awesome?

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Oh my goodness.

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I think Rob cares.

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I think he's, he just cares and he understands and he listens.

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Rob listens.

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I mean, I think that's what anthropologists do, right?

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Yeah.

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There was a lot of, a lot of listening in this, that you're going to find some, some

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points where we do have to think a little bit.

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Yeah.

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And you know, I had to think a lot and you know, Rob definitely helped make us think.

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Yeah.

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So, and we, we talk a little bit about bikes on this one.

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So I think, I mean, you'll, you'll learn probably a little bit about this.

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I like the bike.

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I love the bike too.

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Yeah.

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Sorry.

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I'm going to try to one up you by saying love after like, but you know, you went right,

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you went right for it.

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I, there's no, there's no word I can pick.

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That's the best.

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But yeah, I mean, we joke, we're like, okay.

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And then that shop bikes are going to save the world.

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That's, that's the, that's our proclamation today.

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So I'm expecting this is a part one.

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We're going to have Rob back to talk about bikes.

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Cause we, we had a really great conversation for like 15 minutes after this, where we're

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talking about just, you know, what that means, but we'll save that for episode two with Rob

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or part two with Rob.

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Yeah.

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Stay tuned on that.

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Yeah.

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But for right now was, we won't even talk about what we've talked about.

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Let's let Rob get into it.

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So here it is tomorrow makers.

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Enjoy Rob.

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Hey, how y'all doing?

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How you doing?

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Doing good.

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Good.

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You want to let the listeners know who you are and, you know, what you do here at Penn

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college?

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I would say that's a really good question.

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Yeah.

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I'm Rob Cooley.

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I teach here at Penn college.

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I've been here since 2003.

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So it's been quite a bit.

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I teach anthropology, sociology, environmental science, introduction to research methods

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for social sciences, diversity inclusive practice for human service practitioners, service learning

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and sociology.

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I lead study abroad trips and my probably the most unique class that I teach is called

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outdoor recreation as a therapeutic tool for human service students.

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And that involves leadership, outdoor education, the challenge course project and stuff like

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that.

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So I kind of joke and say I teach the kitchen sink, but I teach a lot of different stuff.

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Great.

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Did that last one always exist or is that something you dreamed up?

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Believe it or not, it actually predates me quite a bit.

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Okay.

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My first student was a faculty in human services, his name was LaRue Reese.

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He developed a course years and years ago and when he retired, there wasn't really anybody

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in that program at the time who was interested or had the background to teach it.

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And they all kind of looked at me and said, Hey Cooley, you want to do it?

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I said, sure.

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Yeah, that sounds like right up your alley.

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It took me down a whole different route that I hadn't initially planned, but it's been

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a really good fit.

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So it's been a nice addition to the stuff that I do.

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Yeah.

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Cool.

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So I'm curious about your background in ecological anthropology.

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We're really excited.

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So you know, doing a little research about you that came up and I'm like, what is that?

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That's also a really good question.

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Yeah.

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Is it just me or I'm thinking our audience might need a little background on that.

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Can you tell us about that?

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Sure.

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So anthropology has always been kind of hard to pin down just as a field itself.

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You know, it's got biological anthropology, looking at the human as a biological species,

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archaeology and looking at the physical remains of past groups, linguistic anthropology, looking

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at the cognition, biology and cultural dimensions of speech and then cultural anthropology.

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There's also applied anthropology, which sort of evolved in the past couple of decades,

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looking at problem oriented anthropology, helping groups of people solve challenges

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that they face.

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And excuse me, when I went to, when I was thinking about grad school, I'd gone to college

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for biology.

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I had my undergraduate degrees in biology with a minor in literature.

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And I developed an interest in conservation and in sustainability and really was interested

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in saving the world.

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And obviously, you know, at the college age, you can sort of think that way.

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And I found this program, well, I'd taken two courses in anthropology in college, kind

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of like a lot of my students.

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I took it because it checked the box and looked interesting.

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I said, I'll give it a shot.

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Well, it completely spun me on my head.

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And I was like, oh my gosh, you're not managing the trout.

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You're managing the people that harvest the trout.

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You're not managing the trees.

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You're managing the industries and stakeholder interests that need the trees.

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And then I was kind of like, well, why don't people want to conserve everything?

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People do weird things.

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And I was joking with students.

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I said, people are weird.

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You know, we do things that are, that don't make sense on the outside.

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So I was like, how do I get at that?

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And I took these couple of anthropology courses and went, oh my gosh, looking at why people

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do the things they do, why their value systems are what they are, why they make the decisions

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that they do, even though the decisions seem to be contradictory to what makes sense.

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I was like, ah, cultural anthropology is what I really want to get into.

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So I looked around for some anthropology programs that were applied in nature that weren't sort

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of the traditional four field approach.

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And I found University of Georgia, and pretty much all of the faculty and the students in

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the program were doing projects that related to sustainability in one way or another, whether

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it was preservation of traditional ecological knowledge of indigenous groups or helping

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contemporary groups in industrialized countries like fisheries in North America, work with

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managers and biologists and policymakers to achieve more sustainable approaches.

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So having somebody, being somebody that grew up on the coast, I've always liked being on

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the water.

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So I was like, no, let's see if I can find a way to mix this with fishing.

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So I wound up doing my dissertation work with commercial blue crab fishermen in Georgia.

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And basically, the point that I had started, the time when I was looking to start my research,

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the Georgia blue crab fishery was actually declining significantly.

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And the state regulators had actually closed it temporarily and put a block on licenses,

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saying, nope, it's overfished, it's declining, we got to figure this out.

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And the fishermen are all going, it's declining, but it's not declining because of us.

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And I was like, ooh, this is interesting.

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The biologists saying one thing, the fishermen saying the other.

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From a cultural standpoint, you have the people with official degrees on the one side.

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You have the people with bureaucratic legitimacy on the one side.

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And then you have the fishermen who are kind of viewed as cowboys.

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And there's big stereotypes, which I don't agree with, but being uneducated or they don't

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understand biology or the fancy stuff.

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So when the biologists and the fishermen would sit across the table, there was a complete

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wall to communication.

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And that's where anthropology comes in.

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It's kind of like, how do you be a translator between different groups and see where they're

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coming at, where they're going?

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So I worked with the fishermen and I interviewed, I think, 25 different fishermen up and down

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the coast of Georgia who didn't really work with each other, but all worked the same resource,

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the same ecosystem and had been at about the same amount of time.

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And I found that in their stories or their descriptions of environmental change, they

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had the same basic models.

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And the models were things like, well, ditching and draining the coastal swamps for pine trees

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for the paper plantations has reduced the ability of the swamp to hold fresh water,

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piece it into the estuaries and buffer the salines that crabs can reproduce.

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That's science.

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But the way that they described it wasn't in the scientific jargon.

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But 25 people to independently, more or less, come up with the same explanation and same

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observation based on decades of observation, combining that with the survey, I was able

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to show that there was a structure to their knowledge and an understanding of environmental

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problems beyond overfishing.

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And then we slid that back across the table to the managers and they said, well, that's

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kind of interesting.

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Not sure if a whole lot of progress has been made because, again, that's an enormous industry.

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And there's, I don't even know how many hundreds of thousands of acres planted in pine trees

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down there.

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But that's the kind of thing that I've always been interested in, is getting in between

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different groups and helping groups see each other's point from different angles towards

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a common goal of sustainability.

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So that's kind of a long, circuitous answer.

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Most of anthropology is long and twisted like that.

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But ecological anthropology is interesting to me because it's a very broad-based way

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of saying, hey, how do we look at the interface between humans and the environment?

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And what factors drive decision making?

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And what cultural systems create patterns of behavior?

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So why do people do the things that they do and why they say the things that they say,

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even though the science says otherwise?

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So the information, well, if we see this, why are you doing that?

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Right?

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So, yeah, so ecological anthropology is sort of a whole combination of different approaches

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to understanding the human environment interface.

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It's really interesting.

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As you're talking, I'm thinking, how does he navigate everyday life?

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Because as you just walk through life, things are happening over here and they're happening

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over here and you have this background knowledge of how do you not get involved in every little

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project around town?

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It's hard not to.

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Yeah, because you just, I feel like you have that unique insight to step in and almost

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offer a solution.

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Yeah, it is kind of funny.

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My wife would be the first to say whenever we're driving somewhere, it's, hey, look at

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that.

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Hey, look at that.

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Hey, do you see that?

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Do you know what that is?

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Oh, yeah.

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Of course you did.

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I can't help myself.

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But yeah, it's also, it's been really beneficial because what is an anthropologist doing here

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at Penn College?

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You know, an applied technology institution, you got a traditional social scientist who

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is doing research with fishermen here, but you can take that perspective and kind of

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lock in on just about anything.

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Right.

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You know, I've worked with, I did a team taught a course in, I did the cultural side of things

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in mathematics with Kurt Van de Veer for a long time.

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It was a study abroad course, we went to the Yucatan and looked at the ancient Maya and

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math systems.

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Been working with Wayne Sheppard in construction on this Dominican Republic service learning

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experience and I was looking at the, helping the students understand the social political

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history of the country and why it led to the economic and environmental situation that

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they see when they put their feet on the ground there.

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Understanding anthropology to industrial design students and understanding the human function

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or the value system and design or the way we go about securing materials and resources

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from the environment or logging or not logging, but forestry students or automotive students,

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why we need emissions controls.

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Right.

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But like, it's everywhere.

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It plugs into everything and it's been kind of fun to find that niche or many niches,

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I guess.

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That's really cool.

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Yeah.

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As I'm sitting here and thinking about it, you asked the question, why is a program like

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that here at Penn College where we're doing applied technologies and before you got to

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that, I'm like, why isn't this like some of the other programming that we have that's

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required that lends a not necessarily liberal arts flair to an applied technology program,

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but a hint of it, why isn't that specific course just required across board because

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I can see that connection that would be at least at the bachelor level.

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Interestingly enough, I think it winds up being a piece of a lot of students' experience

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here because I teach it every semester, sometimes multiple sections a semester and they generally

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fill up pretty well.

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But I know it's either required or suggested elective in industrial design, but also in

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emergency management.

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Those are two programs that I've worked pretty closely with.

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But yeah, I mean, students having their choice of elective is important, but I definitely

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think the social science and the humanities electives that we do have, sociology and anthropology

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tend to be pretty solid, frequently picked courses.

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And the students that go through them, I think, yeah, get that component in their time here.

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Have you, similar to your experience where you said you are taking an anthropology class

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and it just kind of flipped you, do you have that experience in class where there's a student

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that you just kind of see it in their eyes like, I'm really getting to them.

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They're really impacted by this message.

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For sure.

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And it's funny, I've probably got a dozen or so students that I'm still in touch with

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and they're the students that have had those moments, who've had those really tight conversations

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about things.

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And none of them have gone to become anthropologists, but a lot of them have, all of them have really

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incorporated that perspective into their work.

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Students that are working in construction, students that are going into emergency management,

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students that are in industrial design and architecture in particular, those are students

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that I've gotten really closely connected with.

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It's been cool to see.

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When I got out of grad school, I was sort of faced with that choice.

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Do I pursue a teaching and research based career or do I pursue an applied teaching

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career?

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And I prefer teaching, but I also realized that, and my sister is a climate change researcher

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and she writes a lot and does a lot of research.

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But I was like, if I work with students at a place like this and just introduce them

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to these concepts, the carbon footprint, if you will, of sharing that information, ideas

297
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and collaboration is going to be huge and much more direct.

298
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In terms of, I got building automation students or power generation students or construction

299
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students.

300
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Well, here's why we employ these conservation oriented technologies or techniques.

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If I have a student that sat in on my class and realizes, at least thinks about low carbon

302
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living, or the low carbon lifestyle and then goes, all right, well, we're going to build

303
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this multi hundred thousand square foot building with these techniques.

304
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The energy savings or the environmental benefit of that is massive, more than an article that

305
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is in a journal, obscure journal somewhere.

306
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Right.

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And the person that's going to read it is already in tune to that.

308
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And that's not at odds with economic gains either.

309
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The economy industry gains throughout when you start to bring in those conservation and

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sustainability techniques.

311
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Absolutely.

312
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Yeah.

313
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It's kind of fun to say, all right, rather than make my, because a lot of my colleagues

314
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that I went to grad school with are very accomplished people at doing research, traveling the world,

315
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presenting at national conferences and doing some really amazing stuff.

316
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And sometimes I'm kind of, but I really like working with students and I really like seeing

317
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them take the ideas, which the ideas that I share in my classes are nothing earth shattering.

318
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It's just basic perspectives about the environment, sustainability, cultural values, who you are,

319
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why you think the way you do and looking towards the future and seeing them come back and say,

320
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hey, check out what I did.

321
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:26,880
All right.

322
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It's cool.

323
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Yeah.

324
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It's fun to watch.

325
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,520
That's really cool.

326
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:36,660
So we've talked a lot about how students are influencing as graduates and their careers

327
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and taking these perspectives.

328
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But even if we can broaden it out to just in general, just as a consumer, because I

329
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do think from a sustainability standpoint, many of us are making these decisions in our

330
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everyday lives and not really thinking too much about what the trickle down effect is

331
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to this particular action.

332
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So yeah, I was thinking about, are there any examples or things that takeaways?

333
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,240
Is there something as consumers we can, I love what you're saying.

334
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Is there something I can leave here today and put into practice or anyone listening

335
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:20,240
for that matter?

336
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:26,840
The biggest thing that the typical American can do is reduce your energy use.

337
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,200
And I point the finger right at me.

338
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My house is not as small as it could be.

339
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And I drive a full size pickup truck.

340
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So I'm part of the thing too.

341
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But I also live five miles from my job and I ride my bike half the time, at least.

342
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And I'm not a vegetarian, but sometimes I think I should be.

343
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But there's, in my opinion, the things that the top couple of things Americans can do

344
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to be more sustainable, to reduce their energy use, and this is drive less, eat less meat

345
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because I can get that in a second.

346
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Drive less, eat less meat, pick an electric electricity source that is carbon free, like

347
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wind or solar if you can, and think about where your purchases come from.

348
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So if you're getting on Amazon and ordering that one object and having it FedExed to your

349
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house overnight versus waiting and ordering five or six things and having them shipped

350
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more slowly.

351
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Or just running out to the store to get one thing all the time instead of making one concerted

352
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trip.

353
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Or just making one big loop in errands instead of making a whole bunch.

354
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Now it's also difficult.

355
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I have teenage sons and the past year and a half we've been here, there, and everywhere

356
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,820
for this practice, that practice, this event, that.

357
00:20:51,820 --> 00:20:58,040
So I don't necessarily always practice what I preach, but for my house we've picked a

358
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wind powered electrical supplier.

359
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So all the electricity from my house is carbon free.

360
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And I drive a big truck, but I also ride my bike half the time.

361
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So the number of miles that I drive as a commute are lower than the average person for that.

362
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:19,680
We try to buy local produce and meat instead of stuff that was produced thousands of miles

363
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away.

364
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So I'm by no means perfect, but if we all made steps to do that or buy local groceries

365
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:32,680
at the farmers market, things like that, that would really put a big dent in your environmental

366
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,600
footprint so to speak.

367
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,600
And it would support the local community.

368
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,160
The other thing that people can get involved with is stuff in the community, supporting

369
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your local parks, investing in bike and pedestrian infrastructure.

370
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Because if we make our communities more bike and walking friendly, more people will do

371
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:49,800
that.

372
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,400
That's something I've been trying to do lately myself in the local township and the city

373
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and the county level.

374
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So I guess just be aware of your consumption.

375
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,360
It's probably the most important thing you can do.

376
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,920
Be aware of what you're buying and what it represents.

377
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:09,680
When I said eat less meat, the reason why I say that is this comes from environmental

378
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,560
science.

379
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,000
When you transform energy from one form to another, there's always some waste.

380
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So sunlight comes to the earth, plants absorb it and use it to create biomass, leaves, fruits,

381
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the stuff that we eat.

382
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:29,720
But if you then take that plant matter and feed it to an animal like a cow, obviously

383
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:35,600
the cow grows and we eat meat and I'm the first person I do enjoy a steak, but there's

384
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:36,600
energy wasted.

385
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:41,240
You could feed a lot more people with that biomass than you can feed people from the

386
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,200
cows that eat that biomass.

387
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:50,240
So if you ate a vegetarian meal twice a week instead of eating meat, hit every single meal.

388
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,400
There's a lot of really interesting things that you can eat if you're not familiar with

389
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:54,960
that kind of a diet.

390
00:22:54,960 --> 00:23:00,120
But just doing that would cut your carbon footprint because the amount of energy that

391
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:07,400
is used to feed cattle, especially in the sort of the industrial meat production model

392
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:14,080
with big, huge facilities out west and then transporting it, the water and the feed and

393
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,480
the diesel fuel and all the things that are required to do that.

394
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,560
Yeah, do I like a hamburger?

395
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:21,560
Sure.

396
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,400
But that hamburger is a lot more expensive than you really think.

397
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,080
And then we can even get into agricultural subsidies and all that stuff, but that's a

398
00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:28,080
different conversation.

399
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:29,080
Yeah, sure.

400
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,400
And I don't know if Carlos will be willing to share or not, but he is a vegetarian, right?

401
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:37,680
So I'm sure there's some insight there that he might be able to share.

402
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:44,400
Yeah, because even beyond the direct chain of that food to the end consumer, in this

403
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:51,280
case us as humans, you have the byproduct of the cow eating that in the form of methane

404
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:57,280
production because there's literal megatons of methane produced, which becomes a carbon

405
00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:01,200
gas which then floats up to the atmosphere and is really hard to extract.

406
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,280
So that just amplifies a negative cycle.

407
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,520
Methane emissions from cows are a lot more than people think.

408
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,000
And they're often mocked.

409
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,640
It's like, well, we're talking about cow burps and cow gas, but how bad can that be?

410
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,520
But a methane molecule is many times more potent as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

411
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,080
Yeah, and all we talk about is CO2.

412
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:26,160
That's the molecule that we use, but yeah, that's really not the...

413
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,880
It is a danger, but it's not the big one.

414
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,160
Now, there's an interesting technology that's coming out of...

415
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,040
That's being developed in the agricultural industry, especially the livestock industry,

416
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:38,920
is methane digesters.

417
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,440
They actually take the cow waste, not the gases that the cows emit, but the actual waste,

418
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,920
and put it in methane digesters.

419
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:51,160
Bacteria anaerobically digest the organic material and release methane.

420
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:55,120
The methane is then collected and used to generate electricity, which is kind of cool,

421
00:24:55,120 --> 00:24:56,400
but it's also really expensive.

422
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,520
You don't want to see it in really the big operations.

423
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,040
But that's one way to kind of offset it, but it's still...

424
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:08,400
If you ate a vegetarian meal a couple of days a week or took the path that you've taken,

425
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:14,640
that's probably next to transportation, that's your second biggest chunk of energy usage.

426
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:20,320
So we not only have the personal impacts and the personal choices that we can make, but

427
00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:28,720
we can also take part in systems that have a positive impact on where we want to go,

428
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,000
which is ultimately, regardless of where anyone sits on the spectrum on any one individual

429
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,240
issue, I think we could all be in agreement.

430
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,120
We kind of want the human race to be around for a while and be healthy and be part of

431
00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,200
a healthy ecosystem.

432
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,200
Correct.

433
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:49,320
You mentioned Amazon earlier and buying that one product to ship overnight.

434
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:56,120
Well, even they, if you think about when you get to your cart, they've built in incentives

435
00:25:56,120 --> 00:26:02,320
to help you decide, oh, wait a minute, maybe I want my prime day because everything will...

436
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,040
You'll collect your orders and then we'll ship it out on that one day.

437
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:11,760
Oh, and we'll give you $3 as a digital reward to select that prime day if you've done that.

438
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,120
So anyone's making those orders, you can pay attention.

439
00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,520
There are those patterns there.

440
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:25,600
How do we in our organizations, whether for us Penn College or any of the other organizations

441
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:33,960
we belong to or community support groups or whatever, how do we be more intentional about

442
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:38,080
being part of developing positive systems?

443
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:41,040
That's a really difficult question, but it's interesting.

444
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:42,280
Yeah, it is interesting.

445
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:47,200
When I was thinking about the bike to work, what incentive we're giving back, we bike

446
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:48,800
to work, that's great.

447
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:50,560
We know that's a positive thing to do.

448
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:57,840
But I also think, is there a way to incentivize people to do such things?

449
00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:58,840
We should be self-incentive.

450
00:26:58,840 --> 00:26:59,840
I don't know if that's a thing.

451
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,240
We should just do it because that's the right thing to do.

452
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,360
But there could be programs too where there's an incentive to do that.

453
00:27:06,360 --> 00:27:10,560
Put a little one of those little Apple tags and it tracks you when you park your bike

454
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:15,920
and then gives you a discount on your car parking when you use that or if you use car

455
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:16,920
park sharing.

456
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:17,920
Yeah.

457
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:18,920
There's so many things involved with this.

458
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,040
I'm trying to figure out where to start.

459
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:30,680
I think the simple fact is our economy right now values speed, convenience, and price.

460
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:32,140
Most people want that.

461
00:27:32,140 --> 00:27:38,120
Thinking in terms of slow, thinking in terms of local, and thinking in terms of, I don't

462
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:43,400
want to say cost sharing, but you think about some of these buy nothing groups.

463
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,480
It's not as active here, but down in Northern Virginia where my sister lives, there's these

464
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,400
Facebook groups called buy nothing.

465
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,000
If you're done with something that's still useful like a chair or a wood stove or something,

466
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,720
you just put it on there and people send you messages and you just pick who you want to

467
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:57,520
give it to.

468
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,240
These aren't like some ratty t-shirts.

469
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:06,160
It's like an appliance or tools or things like that that are useful.

470
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,920
It's a way to have a bartering economy.

471
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,840
There's a reward because you actually can get some really cool stuff that way, but it

472
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,200
takes a little more effort and a little bit more time.

473
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,280
My parents have been downsizing and they've been actually doing that where they live,

474
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,700
posting things that they don't want that I don't need or my sister doesn't need.

475
00:28:22,700 --> 00:28:24,880
They're giving it to somebody who needs it.

476
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:25,880
There's ways to do that.

477
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,920
I think, Sumer, I think your point about incentivizing biking to work.

478
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:35,720
We're a very car-centric landscape in the United States.

479
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:40,480
We're a landscape developed with the automobile in mind, especially since the turn of the

480
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:41,480
century.

481
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:47,400
What that does is it creates a landscape that's not very friendly to cyclists.

482
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:55,040
The three of us are very familiar with that, but getting communities to, as they redo roads,

483
00:28:55,040 --> 00:29:01,560
as they redevelop and Williamsport itself with the Old City Project, with Basin Street,

484
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:08,280
Pace Lift, with Maynard Street getting some changes, the proposed Riverwalk extension

485
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,320
towards Susquehanna State Park.

486
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:17,800
If we can show that the cities that have adopted bike lanes and bike-friendly infrastructure

487
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:21,920
or pedestrian-friendly infrastructure have actually created a renaissance in their downtowns,

488
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,640
because when people walk through a place, they ride their bike through a place, it's

489
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,120
easy to stop and get out and go in and look at something rather than, I got to go find

490
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,120
a parking spot.

491
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,120
If I do, I might get a ticket.

492
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,160
It was ironic.

493
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:38,760
I went to have a meeting about some bike infrastructure downtown and I came out and had a ticket on

494
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,680
my truck because I was in too long talking about that.

495
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:48,040
But incentivizing, you don't get a ticket if you have a bike, but if you create some

496
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:52,760
amenities or some things to encourage people to do that, they will.

497
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:59,400
It takes me 20 minutes to ride my bike from my house to my office, and it takes me about

498
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:00,400
15 to drive.

499
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:06,160
Clearly, one is harder than the other, but the incentive for me is simply I enjoy it.

500
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:11,800
But if it was bike lanes and a really pleasant experience, more people would do it and you

501
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,880
would probably see people that you know and it creates a sense of community.

502
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,680
I was riding the bike path the other day and right underneath the Market Street Bridge,

503
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,520
I see a neighbor of mine jogging the other way that I hadn't seen in a while.

504
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,560
I gave him a high five as we went by.

505
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,680
You can't do that when you're driving.

506
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:36,680
It's really silly, but that simple bit of human connection goes a long way for creating

507
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,440
community and helping communities solve bigger problems in the long run.

508
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:48,320
As far as other incentives, things like selecting green energy sources, I'll be the first to

509
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:54,880
admit, I selected a wind turbine company that sources its electricity from wind turbines.

510
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:00,440
I pay more for that and it would be nice if all electricity is the same price and we just

511
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,480
sort of factored in that.

512
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,280
Or if we said, hey, you get a rebate if you choose a green energy source.

513
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:11,000
Because if we're trying to reduce carbon emissions by X, Y, Z date, then the people that make

514
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,280
that switch should be rewarded for that or at least be able to afford that as opposed

515
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:16,280
to not.

516
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,400
There's a lot of people that don't have the luxury to be able to do that.

517
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,440
And I even joke with some of my construction students.

518
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,600
I'm like, why don't we tweak the building code and say that we should, and I know this

519
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:30,960
is one of those wild-eyed ideas, but it's like, why don't we make building code say

520
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:36,280
all roofs have to be X percent solar by X date and work that into it.

521
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:39,760
It's easier to work that into a mortgage than to take an existing homeowner and say, well,

522
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:45,840
here, you need to take out 30 to 50,000 more dollars to put a solar array on your roof.

523
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:51,320
Or have PPL or the existing electric utility work that into their long-term plan.

524
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:56,200
So it's like thinking outside the box, creating those bigger incentives that are the big hard

525
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:57,200
hitters.

526
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:02,880
Transportation and energy requires, to an extent, a top-down and a bottom-up approach,

527
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:09,200
not just me flipping through my Amazon, oh, that looks good, or going to the farmer's

528
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,480
market and buying a hamburger there.

529
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,360
But incentivizing sustainable consumption I think is probably one of the biggest ways

530
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,600
that we can steer things in the right direction, because we all want our stuff.

531
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:27,120
We all got to get from point A to point B. So if we can find a way to incentivize green

532
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,800
choices in that matter that doesn't require people to step too far out of their box or

533
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,040
their lane, that's where I think we'll see the most progress.

534
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,520
Little changes, a bunch of little changes.

535
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:47,680
So from the anthropologist perspective, what's keeping us from getting there?

536
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,620
This could be really...

537
00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:52,320
We are, ourselves.

538
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:59,440
I mean, I think Western society has always had a perspective on the environment, that

539
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,760
it was...

540
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:06,920
The environment is there for us to use as we see fit, for us to manage to be prosperous,

541
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:10,200
to meet our needs, and to succeed and to grow.

542
00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:15,920
The problem is we've always viewed our activities as, well, if we have a problem, we can invent

543
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,520
something to fix it.

544
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,240
If we generate an environmental problem, there's a remedy.

545
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:27,680
The problem now that we're facing is with the atmospheric changes that have led us to

546
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:33,440
understand that the climate is changing and it's being driven by anthropogenic or human-caused

547
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:38,840
sources of carbon, carbon dioxide, methane, CFCs.

548
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,320
I don't know how to solve that.

549
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:45,000
I mean, there's seven billion plus people on the planet.

550
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:50,640
Everybody wants food, everybody wants shelter, everybody wants power, everybody wants to

551
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:56,320
get from point A to point B. And fossil fuels are the simplest solution to make that happen.

552
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:03,160
And the quickest, most readily available, most energy dense, most portable.

553
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:08,080
And I have the luxury of saying, I'm going to leave my truck in the driveway today and

554
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,840
ride my bike to work and pat myself on the back for that.

555
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,840
But there's people all over the planet that need a motorcycle to get to their work because

556
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:22,360
it's far away or need to cook food or need kerosene to do a light because they don't

557
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:23,740
have electricity.

558
00:34:23,740 --> 00:34:28,360
And they can't afford a solar panel and a battery and a light setup.

559
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:33,120
Do you think part of the problem is, I mean, sometimes I think, OK, you make these changes.

560
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,560
There's really no repercussion if you don't.

561
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,680
So I think somebody could say, oh, yeah, I know I need to do this.

562
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:44,320
But in the course of, you know, you're 30 years old, however old you are, did your life

563
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,680
really change at all by making a different choice?

564
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:53,160
You know, like they're not seeing direct impacts by making these other decisions that maybe

565
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,520
they shouldn't be making.

566
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:55,520
Yeah.

567
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,240
And I think, sorry, I kind of went sideways on that last question.

568
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:07,000
I think putting those two together, our problem is the Western world, you know, the post-colonial

569
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:12,520
industrial world has always viewed the environment as sort of like the lows.

570
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:17,380
It's the storehouse for the things that we need so we can have the things that we want.

571
00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:24,080
And if I want something and I can buy it, then I should have it.

572
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:28,960
And that's dangerous because this is where we get into the idea of the individual versus

573
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,320
the collective.

574
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:36,440
It's like the greater good sometimes involves the individual not having one or two things.

575
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:42,240
The greater good sometimes involves like if everybody on the planet achieved a lifestyle

576
00:35:42,240 --> 00:35:48,240
like mine, you know, using some of these global footprint, these ecological footprint calculators,

577
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:53,280
we would need two to four planets of resources to make that happen.

578
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,160
And I don't travel like some people I know do.

579
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:58,160
You know, my house isn't as big as some people's.

580
00:35:58,160 --> 00:35:59,160
I don't have as much land.

581
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:03,040
You know, I don't have four, five, six cars in the driveway and things like that.

582
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,240
But at the same time, like most Americans or many Americans, I have air conditioning,

583
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:09,600
I have electricity and other things.

584
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:18,900
So we as this is sort of the anthropologist, he says, well, Western society may need to

585
00:36:18,900 --> 00:36:24,200
have that point of reckoning, where we go, how much can we have?

586
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:26,680
Because there's only so much to go around.

587
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:33,880
And we're seeing that the consumption of resources and energy due to industrialization has now

588
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:39,760
steered the planet down a pathway, you know, when you think of a global climate change

589
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,120
that may be damaging to everybody.

590
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:48,760
And some groups are going to face more or disproportionate effects than others.

591
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:56,000
But I think at the end of the day, it's like letting the market, you sort of like that

592
00:36:56,000 --> 00:37:00,400
laissez faire approach, letting people make their own choices, you know, based on good

593
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,780
information is one strategy.

594
00:37:02,780 --> 00:37:07,820
But on the other hand, it's to an extent, some degree of government policy is creating

595
00:37:07,820 --> 00:37:13,600
some barriers saying, you know, we need to stay as a society, we need to stay within this zone

596
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,160
in order to hit our target.

597
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:21,600
Yeah, like I remember as a kid, I lived in North Jersey in the late 70s and early 80s.

598
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,120
And I remember driving up to turnpike to New York City and the air was brown, you know,

599
00:37:26,120 --> 00:37:27,120
smog.

600
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,800
And I just sort of assumed that was normal.

601
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:32,440
That's just the way it was.

602
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,520
And I'd sit on the I'd go to the beach and you could actually see the brown air kind

603
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,000
of rolling out to sea.

604
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:42,920
And you know, go to New York City and it's like, you kind of see sometimes you can see

605
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,240
the tops of the buildings.

606
00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:51,120
And the beach that I went to, this is up by Sandy Hook, the very top of the beaches.

607
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:55,960
And there was all kinds of stuff that you could use to put on your sandcastles, you

608
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,840
know, little plastic bits and pieces and things.

609
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:04,080
Then one day I put this little oblong object on the top of my sandcastles, a flagpole.

610
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,200
My mom says, don't touch that.

611
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,760
It was a personal hygiene product.

612
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,280
And you know, the stuff was washing up on the beach all the time.

613
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:16,440
I thought it was normal to walk on the beach and get tar stuck to your foot.

614
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,560
The tar was in the sand from shipwrecks and oil spills and things because that area has

615
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:24,000
just been industrialized for, you know, over 100 years.

616
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:28,880
At night, on a cloudy day like this, when it's cloudy at night, the sky would glow orange

617
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,880
at night from all the light pollution.

618
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:38,440
It wasn't until I went to Bucknell in the early 90s that I saw real stars and saw moonlight

619
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:44,120
on the floor in a room because it wasn't drowned out by the light pollution.

620
00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:50,680
So the reason why I told that story is the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, the Superfund

621
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:56,760
Act, federal laws implemented in the late 70s, early 80s in response to things like

622
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,800
the Cuyahoga River in Ohio catching on fire a couple of times, a river catching on fire.

623
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:05,520
And so, you know, the water was just like a

624
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:09,760
municipal and medical waste being dumped offshore in New York City at night, five miles offshore,

625
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:13,000
instead of the required 20 or 30 miles offshore, and they're washing back on the beach.

626
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,000
You know, we all heard the jokes about, you know, medical waste on the beaches.

627
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,000
Well, it was legit.

628
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:19,520
It was real.

629
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:24,160
So I've seen, that's where I feel like I'm, you know, crawling out of the woods.

630
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,160
I've seen the future.

631
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:32,760
I've seen the change that 40 years of federal environmental protection has created.

632
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,760
And getting back to the smog thing, thinking about automotive technology, when I was a

633
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,480
kid, and I don't know if you all remember this, but you could buy a car with regular

634
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,600
emissions or California emissions.

635
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:48,800
And the California emissions were these new, super restrictive, you know, environmental

636
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,360
and people who couldn't, oh, California, those crazy environmentalists and stuff.

637
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:56,680
But they had to do that because the geology and ecology of their area created these massive

638
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,640
inversions and massive smog.

639
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:03,160
Well, the EPA saw that and went, we could all use that.

640
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,860
And so it went nationwide.

641
00:40:05,860 --> 00:40:07,860
But it's interesting.

642
00:40:07,860 --> 00:40:14,920
Yeah, so like adopting that nationwide, we actually affected a national nationwide reduction

643
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:21,520
in smog, particulate matter, nitrous oxide, sulfur dioxide emissions, unburnt hydrocarbons.

644
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,120
And the irony is, I remember, again, this brings it back to bikes.

645
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:29,360
When I was in second grade, I lived in a neighborhood where I could ride my bike to the elementary

646
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:30,360
school.

647
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,600
So that big, you know, ape hanger, banana seat dirt bike in the 70s.

648
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,760
And I remember at stop signs being behind cars and going like, my eyes would water and

649
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:39,760
it would smell.

650
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,320
The exhaust is horrible.

651
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:46,200
And now, if you're behind a like a brand new car, you can't even smell it.

652
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:51,460
And like, that's probably even like a brand new Volkswagen turbo diesel, you can hardly

653
00:40:51,460 --> 00:40:52,520
even smell it.

654
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:56,680
And that's because the emissions controls that the technology that we developed made

655
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:57,880
a difference.

656
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,160
And now when people go to New York City, it's clear.

657
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,440
And you don't see that anymore.

658
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:07,420
But the problem is, a lot of people today haven't been around long enough to see what

659
00:41:07,420 --> 00:41:08,420
it was before.

660
00:41:08,420 --> 00:41:11,400
And they go, well, what do we need all these regulations for?

661
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,720
Everything's fine.

662
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:18,960
So it's kind of like, and that's, again, the idea of culture and values and behavior.

663
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,760
You know, people make decisions based on the information that they have.

664
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:27,220
If they don't understand where we were and how we got here, then even a good friend of

665
00:41:27,220 --> 00:41:28,720
mine lives in town here.

666
00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:29,720
He's lived here his whole life.

667
00:41:29,720 --> 00:41:33,000
And he said, when he was a kid, he's about, I'm 50.

668
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,120
So he's about 10, 12 years older than me.

669
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,080
He was like, man, when I was a little kid, we used to play under what's now the Market

670
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,080
Street Bridge.

671
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:46,320
And you could tell what, this is a story he told me, I don't have any actual validation

672
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:47,320
for it.

673
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,000
But he said, you could tell what the paper plant in Lock Haven was doing, because the

674
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,000
river would be different colors.

675
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,200
And before good sewage treatment was built, he said you could see human waste going down

676
00:41:58,200 --> 00:41:59,200
the river.

677
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,640
I think about now, you go there and fish.

678
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:06,040
I mean, President Reid's son hauled out a huge muskie the other day from the river.

679
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:11,800
And to me, that's, again, it all points to good stewardship of the environment, through

680
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:17,120
technology and through good decisions, but also, to an extent, some top down regulation

681
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,360
saying, look, we can't do that anymore.

682
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:21,120
We just can't.

683
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,800
You look at pictures of Niagara Falls back in the late 19th century, you see the buildings

684
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,880
lined up, they're just pumping their waste right into the river.

685
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,800
And we look at that today, we go, oh my gosh, how could you do that?

686
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:36,100
But there's still places here in the county that use motor oil for their furnaces.

687
00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:38,500
We have a long way to go.

688
00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:45,880
And it's a balance between regulation, which a lot of people resist.

689
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,880
My own free individual let me have my freedom, let me do my own thing.

690
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:55,000
But at the same time, each one of us does things that adds to pollution or environmental

691
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,280
problems or carbon in the atmosphere.

692
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:02,420
Eventually, we have what some refer to as the tragedy of the commons.

693
00:43:02,420 --> 00:43:08,440
There's no incentive to conserve if nobody creates the conditions where what I do harms

694
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:09,440
you.

695
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:15,600
But just showing people these ideas and talking about it, I think, in my classes, is the first

696
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,760
way to say, well, you know, it's a balance.

697
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,880
I don't like being told what to do by anybody else.

698
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,200
But at the same time, if the government says, no, you got to have a catalytic converter

699
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:27,200
on your truck.

700
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:29,240
Okay, I get it.

701
00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:33,440
Because there's so many times I'm riding around here, somebody goes by me with a fairly

702
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,200
modern car that clearly has no emissions controls on it.

703
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,480
It's like, oh, man.

704
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:43,000
And that's because our county, because it's a fairly rural county, doesn't have very restrictive

705
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,000
emissions laws.

706
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:50,200
Pennsylvania's state has different laws or different, like the urban areas have much

707
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,320
stricter rules than the rural areas.

708
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:58,040
Like here, you have to have a gas cap that holds pressure and visibly, you know, a catalytic

709
00:43:58,040 --> 00:43:59,040
converter.

710
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,400
Whereas in Harrisburg or Philly, they actually have to plug the computer in and see if your

711
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,920
car is operating up to code.

712
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,480
And seems such a little thing to say, you know, let's just do that.

713
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,920
But then, you know, there'd be a huge outcry saying, I don't want to do that.

714
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:14,320
It costs more money.

715
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,960
I think there is actually a movement.

716
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:24,520
I saw someone is making a call to try to even roll back the visual inspection we have now.

717
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:30,800
But it's so complicated, because you can see how science drives regulation.

718
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:36,920
But human perspectives on the environment drive their response to regulation, which

719
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:41,640
shapes votes, shapes elections, shapes polarization in communities.

720
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:46,840
And it just becomes this really massive, complicated web of forces.

721
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,800
So I mean, as an anthropologist, it's kind of fascinating, but it's also kind of demoralizing

722
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,160
too.

723
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:58,320
But that's kind of why I get into these classes, you know, showing that sustainability and

724
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:04,120
conservation is a multilayered approach that requires a lot of perspective on different

725
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,120
sides of things.

726
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:12,760
Now, at the top, you talked about how, you know, having the scientists and the lay person

727
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:19,560
connecting them, having an anthropologist in the middle to kind of help translate that.

728
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,320
Do we have that same problem where maybe we need someone with an anthropologist perspective

729
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:31,600
on the PR teams for these, you know, when we're talking about regulations and explaining

730
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,880
why we have these regulations as opposed to, oh, go read this bill that, you know, it's

731
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,680
going to be tucked in?

732
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:46,400
Yeah, I think it's if you have somebody that understands sort of what I say, the culturally

733
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:53,600
appropriate way of seeing something, you know, every group has their way of looking at something

734
00:45:53,600 --> 00:46:01,000
and being able to see it from both sides is something that's kind of, I don't know, I

735
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:06,440
sometimes I look at anthropologists or like translators or brokers between different groups,

736
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,800
stakeholder groups or a go between.

737
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,640
Like I see your point and I see your point.

738
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,000
You both see it.

739
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:15,760
You both have the same end goal, but you're coming at it from two very different ways.

740
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,640
So let's shift the bar a little bit.

741
00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:23,780
I think you don't have to be an anthropologist to be able to understand different groups

742
00:46:23,780 --> 00:46:24,780
of people.

743
00:46:24,780 --> 00:46:30,560
But like having somebody with that perspective in a team or project like that is definitely

744
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:31,560
important.

745
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,560
It's kind of funny, my sister kind of does work like that.

746
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,760
She's a climate scientist.

747
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:45,320
She's a I believe she's a PhD in oceanography or marine science and chemistry in particular.

748
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,440
But she works for a group called the Ocean Conservancy in DC.

749
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:58,200
And her her task has been to take climate change research and in particular, the climate

750
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:04,320
change research that looks at ocean acidification, which serve in a nutshell is when increased

751
00:47:04,320 --> 00:47:07,720
levels of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere dissolve into the ocean, they create carbonic

752
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:13,000
acid and and drive the pH of the ocean water down, which stresses corals and crustaceans

753
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:17,840
and and mollusks and stuff like that.

754
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,320
But ocean acidification is something that could collapse the world's fisheries.

755
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,940
It's like, oh, you know, too bad those those shrimp or those clams, but these are things

756
00:47:25,940 --> 00:47:31,320
that billions of people depend on and trillions of dollars of economic benefit and just the

757
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,280
function of our global ecosystems.

758
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,080
But you can you know, you can hold a poster up and say this is bad all you want.

759
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:38,320
You're not going to get very far.

760
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:44,040
But what she does is she and her group actually take the state of the science, so to speak,

761
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:49,360
and distill it into approachable chunks that they can then pass on to support legislation

762
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:55,440
and pass on to policymakers and say, distill the science down into something understandable

763
00:47:55,440 --> 00:48:00,280
and pass on the policymakers say, hey, here's why we need to do this.

764
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:06,360
You think about it, our students in every one of our programs, they're the specialists,

765
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:07,360
right?

766
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:10,000
They're the ones that are the content experts.

767
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:15,360
And if they're interested in doing things sustainably, they say, here's how we could

768
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:16,360
do it.

769
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:17,640
And they can do the same thing she does.

770
00:48:17,640 --> 00:48:21,120
They could pass on to the policymakers or pass them on to the industry and say, hey,

771
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:22,740
let's try this.

772
00:48:22,740 --> 00:48:25,080
Or you know, the the we're going to build this new building.

773
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,040
Hey, we should build it this way.

774
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:28,640
Or we're going to build a highway.

775
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:33,720
Well, let's try this this different construction approach that reduces erosion or maximizes

776
00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:34,720
habitat again.

777
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:36,800
I'm stepping way out of my lane on that.

778
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,120
For the professionals in the field, please don't please don't throw things at me.

779
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:46,200
But just being aware that there's different ways to do things that can generate a long

780
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,200
term net improvement.

781
00:48:48,200 --> 00:48:49,200
Awareness is huge.

782
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:50,200
That's the theme here.

783
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:54,160
It's just thinking about our decisions and thinking about how they impact other people

784
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:56,120
in the long term.

785
00:48:56,120 --> 00:48:57,120
Right.

786
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:58,120
Right.

787
00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:59,760
You could talk about your trip to the Dominican Republic.

788
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:00,760
Yeah.

789
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:01,760
What did you do there?

790
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:02,760
Tell us about that.

791
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:03,760
That's also kind of a good question.

792
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:04,760
Kind of.

793
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:05,760
No, not kind of.

794
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:07,760
I was just thinking of the other ones.

795
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:11,080
It's like there's there's no real easy, neat way to answer that.

796
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:18,840
So that's it's a great question, because I firmly believe that travel is really an effective

797
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:25,680
vehicle to get to know yourself better, but also to recognize that there's so many other

798
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:29,560
people out on the planet that live differently than we do.

799
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:35,720
And that at the end of the day, we're all human beings that need food, water, shelter,

800
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:39,640
a home, a community, meaningful relationships.

801
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:43,420
But how we solve those needs is very different.

802
00:49:43,420 --> 00:49:47,680
So I love taking students to different parts of the world and just just to open their eyes

803
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:50,200
to places that they've never been and things.

804
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:55,040
But the Dominican Republic trip was a really great opportunity.

805
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,080
Wayne Shepherd had put the course together.

806
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:03,680
It was I think it was originally titled Service Learning and Construction Management in the

807
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,440
Dominican Republic or something like that.

808
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:06,440
OK.

809
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:11,320
But then the scope of the course got broadened to basically be accessible to anybody on campus

810
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,200
who wanted to take it.

811
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:19,360
And he approached me at the end of the fall semester and said, hey, you know, would you

812
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:20,640
want to be a part of this?

813
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:21,640
And I was like, absolutely.

814
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:22,640
I'd love to.

815
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:23,640
I love to travel.

816
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:26,800
I also have functional Spanish.

817
00:50:26,800 --> 00:50:29,600
And it was a way to be helpful.

818
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:31,640
So the two of us team taught it.

819
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:39,240
And the main thrust of the course was that he was connected with a mission down in the

820
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:47,680
Dominican Republic whose their pillars or the main thrusts of their activity were sustainable

821
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:55,180
food production, vocational skill training, the establishment of safe, reliable drinking

822
00:50:55,180 --> 00:50:59,600
water sources and good housing.

823
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:03,800
And so what this mission has been doing is connecting with groups in the United States

824
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:09,320
who come down and volunteer their time to build homes, to deliver water filter systems

825
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:15,720
to communities, and sort of engage in any kind of volunteer humanitarian type work that

826
00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:17,120
this group does.

827
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:24,000
So they're in a little town called Villa Tapia in the very center of the Dominican Republic.

828
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:31,620
And the activities that we did while we were there for them, we helped build a house completely.

829
00:51:31,620 --> 00:51:33,200
They had built the foundation.

830
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:35,040
They put the slab and the footers in.

831
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,160
But the students built the house from the ground up.

832
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:40,600
And when we left, it was finished.

833
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,600
And the family was given the keys.

834
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:47,360
It's very much a habitat for humanity style where the family participates in the construction

835
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:48,520
process.

836
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:53,660
And I'm not sure how the mission decides who, but they have a list of I think 25 or 30 families

837
00:51:53,660 --> 00:51:54,740
that are waiting for a house.

838
00:51:54,740 --> 00:51:56,720
So they've got plenty of work to do.

839
00:51:56,720 --> 00:52:04,040
And they also work with Sawyer water filtration systems, backpacking and trail running, you

840
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:05,040
know all about those.

841
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:12,680
But they've adapted their main filtration setup to go on a kitchen faucet with a hose

842
00:52:12,680 --> 00:52:13,680
clamp.

843
00:52:13,680 --> 00:52:20,200
So most of the communities in the DR have freshwater supplies that are piped in, but

844
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,640
the sanitation is spotty.

845
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:23,760
It's intermittent.

846
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,040
So even though you're getting clear water out the tap, it may still have bacteria, viruses

847
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:30,560
or things like that that can get you sick.

848
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:37,800
So by distributing these to communities, these families now have a continual, reliable, reusable

849
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,180
water filtration system, which is great.

850
00:52:40,180 --> 00:52:45,960
I think our students raised $3,000 and we brought many, many, many water filter, duffel

851
00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:47,960
bags of water filters with us to the Dominican Republic.

852
00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:48,960
It was awesome.

853
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,720
And what a lesson that is.

854
00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:56,040
I mean, think about being, you know, thinking about being back, you know, college age, going

855
00:52:56,040 --> 00:53:00,880
somewhere like that and thinking, oh my goodness, I take for granted that I turn the faucet

856
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,040
on in the water safe to drink.

857
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:04,040
Right.

858
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:08,720
Or I have a house that's clean, safe for me to live in.

859
00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:09,720
Right.

860
00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:14,160
And did you see those types of, you know, did you see that in your students?

861
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:19,160
You know, like, oh my goodness, I had no idea this is how it was in certain parts of the

862
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:20,160
world.

863
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:21,160
Absolutely.

864
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,760
And that was what was really fun about being a part of the class during the spring because

865
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:31,360
Wayne and I sort of created a series of lectures over the course of the semester and hit a

866
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:33,040
lot of different topics.

867
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:37,480
And I spent the first half of the semester talking about the history of the Dominican

868
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:38,560
Republic.

869
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,800
And I was learning it myself for the first time, but it was kind of like that.

870
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,940
Here's what it was before colonialism.

871
00:53:44,940 --> 00:53:48,360
And then during the colonialist expansion, here's what happened here.

872
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:53,480
And then from the 1700s to the 20th century, basically, there was a place of political

873
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,560
and social upheaval.

874
00:53:55,560 --> 00:54:01,160
And the lesson that I wanted to share with students was that the extended period of political

875
00:54:01,160 --> 00:54:08,320
conflict and groups vying for power meant that the economy never really was able to

876
00:54:08,320 --> 00:54:15,520
solidify and meant that the government was never really successful at building infrastructure

877
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:21,820
like a power grid, like drinking water supplies, or even more importantly, sanitation systems

878
00:54:21,820 --> 00:54:24,160
to deal with sewage.

879
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:29,320
And one of the things that I wanted the students to be able to do, and this is kind of a delicate

880
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:32,840
thing, this is where the anthropology comes back into play.

881
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,840
Many times people from developed countries go to developing areas and they go, oh, these

882
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:37,840
poor people.

883
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,320
And oh, how could they live like this?

884
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:42,600
You know, this is terrible.

885
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,000
Here's some stuff to help.

886
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:48,280
And that's important and that's kind.

887
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:54,480
But rather, I wanted the students to say, look, you know, you don't have any choice

888
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,480
where you're born into the world.

889
00:54:57,480 --> 00:55:03,120
And the system that you land in gives you opportunities and challenges.

890
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:06,680
And you do the best you can within those parameters.

891
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:10,740
And what this mission was doing that I thought was really cool was instead of just going

892
00:55:10,740 --> 00:55:15,280
and delivering groceries or tanks full of drinking water, they're saying, here's some

893
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:16,280
tools.

894
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:17,880
Here's how to use them.

895
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,560
Now you're in charge.

896
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:23,200
It's empowerment at the human and the family level.

897
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:28,880
And the people, you know, in these communities, even though by our standards, they didn't

898
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:35,600
have as much money, or, you know, air conditioners or TV, you know, they had TVs and there was

899
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:40,520
air conditioners, there were sinks and stoves and people had cars and motorcycles.

900
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:46,560
But you know, there was dirt floors and there was definitely some people that were better

901
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:49,380
off and some people that are very not well off.

902
00:55:49,380 --> 00:55:55,960
But I wanted the students to see that no matter how much or how little you have, still as

903
00:55:55,960 --> 00:55:58,720
a human being, you want to have agency.

904
00:55:58,720 --> 00:56:02,380
You want to have the ability to make your own decisions.

905
00:56:02,380 --> 00:56:06,600
And what they were doing is they were being a consultant in a way and going and providing

906
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:13,200
the tools to the people that we were working for and saying, here, here's how you use this,

907
00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:14,200
here's what you can do.

908
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,240
And now, now you're in charge.

909
00:56:16,240 --> 00:56:18,600
And it was so cool to see.

910
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:22,360
And the other thing that I was talking about is the cycle of poverty.

911
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:27,600
So one of the challenges in developing countries, especially is health.

912
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:31,320
And if you don't have a lot of money, and you live in an area that doesn't have clean

913
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,560
drinking water, you have to buy water.

914
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:38,760
So there's a burden on your family budget as it is.

915
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,120
But then if you don't have clean drinking water or the water that in the creek next

916
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:50,600
door is contaminated with poor sanitation, your kids are playing it, then they get sick.

917
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:54,480
If you don't have a lot of money and your kids get sick, they got to go to the doctor

918
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:55,760
or they got to get health care.

919
00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:58,080
That's an added financial burden.

920
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:03,400
Installing a $30 water filter on a kitchen faucet can literally transform a family's

921
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:10,760
annual finances and eliminate time off from work or eliminate missed school.

922
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:15,600
So if people can avoid getting sick and continue working, they make more money, they don't

923
00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:19,520
spend the money on health care, they don't spend the money on drinking water.

924
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:23,160
That automatically puts them up a notch or two financially.

925
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:30,160
But two, if the kids don't miss school, they finish school, then they like we all say here

926
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:33,360
at Penn College, they can get a better job.

927
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:39,480
And the other thing is this could even address to an extent gender gaps.

928
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:44,840
Because women and girls typically, again, this is a broad-broad generalization, but

929
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:49,600
in a lot of these areas, women and girls tend to be more associated with the house-related

930
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:54,960
duties, domestic duties, and are involved in getting water and providing water and purifying

931
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:56,680
water and all that sort of stuff.

932
00:57:56,680 --> 00:58:00,560
Now if it just comes out of the faucet and the girl doesn't get sick, she can finish

933
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,600
school and if she can finish school, she can get a job.

934
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:10,280
And then adding to that the establishment of microloan programs in these areas where

935
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:17,420
a loan of $200 or $500 to start a small washing business or a food business or buy some tools

936
00:58:17,420 --> 00:58:24,560
to go do repair work or better farm equipment, those are the steps that really matter in

937
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:30,440
terms of helping somebody improve their own standard of living.

938
00:58:30,440 --> 00:58:36,240
And just a simple $30 water filter can literally cause a family's finances to do a U-turn in

939
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:37,240
that environment.

940
00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:42,840
And that's why I really enjoy being part of this class because it's showing how you can

941
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,760
look at things from a social scientific perspective and say, well, this is how building a house

942
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:52,120
for somebody or installing a water filter is more than just doing a good turn.

943
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:57,760
You're actually influencing the development process.

944
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:59,820
And it was very, very cool.

945
00:58:59,820 --> 00:59:03,880
And the students, and we talked about language, we talked about what students would see and

946
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:07,560
what they would experience and how they might feel when they see those differences so that

947
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:12,240
when they saw it, they weren't like deer in headlights, like, wow, they were like, oh,

948
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:13,720
that's what we talked about.

949
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:19,120
And again, prepping for the experience was really important in that way.

950
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:24,300
But I got to give our students credit, more than credit, kudos.

951
00:59:24,300 --> 00:59:29,400
The staff at the mission actually said to Shep and I at the end of the thing, said,

952
00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:32,640
you know, your students were really, really awesome.

953
00:59:32,640 --> 00:59:33,640
They were so engaged.

954
00:59:33,640 --> 00:59:35,480
They were so polite.

955
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:36,480
They were so appropriate.

956
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:43,280
You know, they said, we've had some groups that just weren't where we thought they'd

957
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:46,600
be and your students were just all in.

958
00:59:46,600 --> 00:59:47,600
And I was proud.

959
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,480
I was like, that's kind of who we are and what we do.

960
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:55,080
But I think the partnership that he and I had put together, a good experience, the students

961
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:59,480
really were ready to take in what they were going to see.

962
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,200
There was one experience that the mission organized.

963
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:05,760
We went to what they call the Juvenile Rehabilitation Center.

964
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:12,680
And it was where young men, I think the youngest was 13 or 14.

965
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:13,680
There was one that was 17.

966
01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,560
That kind of hit me because my sons are 17.

967
01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,840
And then there was some in the late 20s.

968
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:28,720
But these are all young men who had either drug, alcohol, or gambling addictions and

969
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,280
behavioral problems related to that.

970
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:36,080
This is kind of like an inpatient facility that had some counselors and staff who were

971
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,320
helping them get well.

972
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,600
And the counselors and staff are people that had also experienced that a long time ago.

973
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:43,760
So it was a really cool experience.

974
01:00:43,760 --> 01:00:47,760
So we went there and a pastor came with us with his accordion.

975
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:53,120
They played some songs and sang and then through a translator, some of the young men in the

976
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,480
facility shared their stories to the group.

977
01:00:55,480 --> 01:01:01,200
Well, some of the students in the group then stood up and thanked them, but also expressed

978
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:05,280
that they had some similar experiences in their lives or their families or whatever.

979
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,600
And it was a real moment of equality.

980
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:13,120
And then they all went out in the back alleyway and played basketball together for a bit.

981
01:01:13,120 --> 01:01:14,120
It was great.

982
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:21,520
It was just neat to see them really living in the community with these people and seeing

983
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:22,880
them for who they were.

984
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:24,840
It was great.

985
01:01:24,840 --> 01:01:28,360
So the students, I guess, have to pull it all back together because there's so many

986
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,880
threads in all these different things that we do.

987
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:37,400
But I think it's so valuable to be able to be a part of these experiences because the

988
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:43,480
stuff that I get interested in, the concepts, the relationships of power and economics and

989
01:01:43,480 --> 01:01:51,280
history and cultural identity and ethnicity and race and gender and economics really apply

990
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:54,920
to helping deconstruct what you see.

991
01:01:54,920 --> 01:02:00,560
And so the students had, I hope, felt that they were, they're, oh, okay, that's what

992
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:01,560
we were talking about.

993
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:02,560
And now I see why.

994
01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,840
Rather than going, I can't believe people live this way.

995
01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:12,840
And then bringing it all home, we stayed at a resort in Punta Cana at the very end.

996
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:17,920
This gave the students kind of like a reward because it was five days of very hard work.

997
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:22,840
I mean, it was a morning shift and an afternoon shift, Monday through Thursday, four or five

998
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:24,400
hours at a clip.

999
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:27,720
And it was hot and students worked very hard.

1000
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:32,400
But we drove all the way from Beatapia to Punta Cana.

1001
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,280
It was like a five hour drive.

1002
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:37,240
And we're going through all these little communities.

1003
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:43,080
And some of the students noticed there's some really worn out vehicles that you would see

1004
01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:44,080
on the road.

1005
01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:48,520
And then at one moment there was a Mercedes, I believe it was SUV.

1006
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,400
I looked it up because my son's big into supercars.

1007
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:55,120
I think the MSRP on that was $150,000.

1008
01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:58,360
So and they were, the students were really very perceptive.

1009
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:03,000
They noticed that, man, you have these sort of low income villages and then you see this

1010
01:03:03,000 --> 01:03:04,640
mansion.

1011
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:09,000
And they asked about that and some of the, hey, I don't understand this.

1012
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:10,000
Why is this?

1013
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:11,000
And I'm like, cool.

1014
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:16,360
So the folks that we were with said, well, a lot of families have somebody, not a lot,

1015
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:20,800
but many families have a relative or a member that has either gone to the States or gone

1016
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:25,040
to another country or worked in the oil fields and made some money and sent it home.

1017
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:29,440
And so some families have had more economic benefit than others.

1018
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:30,440
But you know, stuff like that.

1019
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:35,080
But when we got to the resort and I don't know if many people have flown to the Caribbean,

1020
01:03:35,080 --> 01:03:38,600
wherever you get to the airport, you get on the bus, you go through some neighborhoods,

1021
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:40,720
then you're at this beautiful resort.

1022
01:03:40,720 --> 01:03:45,400
And we were sitting at a restaurant by the pool the first, first and a second night.

1023
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:50,760
I don't remember which, but one of the students kind of looked at some of the tourists, looked

1024
01:03:50,760 --> 01:03:56,920
at some of the tourists and they looked at the staff at the bar and looked at the tourists

1025
01:03:56,920 --> 01:03:59,760
again, looked at the staff again and went.

1026
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:04,560
I bet they, pointing to the tourists, he says, I bet they have no idea where these people

1027
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:10,800
live or what their communities are like or that they even care.

1028
01:04:10,800 --> 01:04:14,680
And I was like, I'm done.

1029
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:15,680
This works.

1030
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:18,440
It was, it was, it was one of those moments and I kind of elbowed Wayne.

1031
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:20,240
He was like, yeah, exactly.

1032
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:21,240
You know, but they got it.

1033
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:26,960
They got that disconnect and recognizing that people, the guests of that place don't necessarily

1034
01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:28,520
see those people as people.

1035
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:29,520
Right.

1036
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,600
And recognize them for who they are and where they're from.

1037
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:37,400
And not even like, oh, they're so rich and these people are so poor, but just like, just

1038
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:39,680
understanding who they are as human beings.

1039
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:43,120
And we actually heard a bunch of times mumblings in the staff.

1040
01:04:43,120 --> 01:04:45,960
Those are the people that were in Via Tapia all week.

1041
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:50,200
Like we didn't just get off a plane and like we had been doing something else in a legit

1042
01:04:50,200 --> 01:04:54,320
Dominican town rather than just, you know, touring around.

1043
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:56,280
So that's kind of cool.

1044
01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:57,280
That's really cool.

1045
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:00,280
But yeah, so we're planning on doing it again next spring.

1046
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:06,040
And the idea is it's developing is we're going to take, it's open to anybody who wants to

1047
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:11,120
take it, but we're going to definitely have a contingent of construction students, but

1048
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:15,080
we're also partnering with the nursing program.

1049
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:18,360
Christine Cavanaugh is interested in coming and we're hoping to bring in contingent of

1050
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:21,400
nursing students to have a nursing clinic.

1051
01:05:21,400 --> 01:05:26,280
And I'm going to try to bring along contingent of human service students to do a human service

1052
01:05:26,280 --> 01:05:27,280
program.

1053
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:28,800
So we'll have some parallel projects there as well.

1054
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:29,800
Very nice.

1055
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:31,680
So yeah, looking forward to round two.

1056
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:32,680
Good.

1057
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:33,680
That's so cool.

1058
01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:34,680
Yeah.

1059
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:39,640
So when you were preparing for the trip just recently and gathering donations for the water

1060
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,680
filters, how did you go about that?

1061
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:48,320
And if you're looking for this time around for contributions, how might somebody get

1062
01:05:48,320 --> 01:05:49,480
involved there?

1063
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:59,520
So we had a table that Wayne had put together with some, I had done some research on facts

1064
01:05:59,520 --> 01:06:04,080
about access to clean water worldwide and the inequity.

1065
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:07,760
Surinamese have lots of water, Surinamese don't, and the impacts of not having clean

1066
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:10,280
water.

1067
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:15,000
So we had some fact sheets and we had some information about the mission that we were

1068
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:20,480
going to go and contribute to and some information about the water filters themselves.

1069
01:06:20,480 --> 01:06:24,840
And basically we had a QR code and if people wanted they could just, we were basically

1070
01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:29,480
giving bottles of water away with a tag kind of draped on the top that had information

1071
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,880
about global inequality and access to clean water.

1072
01:06:32,880 --> 01:06:35,880
And we just asked for donations and there was a QR code so students could even do a

1073
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:37,720
Venmo or a Cash App kind of thing.

1074
01:06:37,720 --> 01:06:38,720
Oh nice.

1075
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:44,040
And it went to an account in corporate relations, I believe it was.

1076
01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:47,240
And we had to get cash donations and we would deposit that.

1077
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:51,480
But I think they raised almost $3,000.

1078
01:06:51,480 --> 01:06:53,280
So it was very cool.

1079
01:06:53,280 --> 01:06:56,800
And that moves across the campus for the spring semester.

1080
01:06:56,800 --> 01:06:59,920
So you might see it in the ACC, you might see it in the library, you might see it in

1081
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:04,520
Dauphin Hall or in the Capitol Eatery, something like that.

1082
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:09,400
We'll get our hands on that URL and that QR code, we'll share that in the podcast.

1083
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:13,960
So yeah, individuals who want to be able to donate to that, they can.

1084
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:18,080
Companies that, company reps that are listening to this and want to make a big impact, they

1085
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:22,960
can do that, maybe even support some students to participate in that global experience.

1086
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:29,440
And to that end, we had some very generous donations to the college last year for targeting

1087
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:31,260
global experiences.

1088
01:07:31,260 --> 01:07:36,120
And that I think we had a pretty size, I mean, every group that went last year had a donation

1089
01:07:36,120 --> 01:07:41,020
from that fund and it really helped make the experience accessible to a lot of students.

1090
01:07:41,020 --> 01:07:43,520
So that's very appreciated.

1091
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:44,520
Absolutely.

1092
01:07:44,520 --> 01:07:47,920
So I think we're coming up to a good natural close here.

1093
01:07:47,920 --> 01:07:53,720
I think we, early on, we laid out a lot of those individual actions that we could take.

1094
01:07:53,720 --> 01:08:00,760
Are there resources that someone who really just wants to know more about the ecological

1095
01:08:00,760 --> 01:08:10,160
effects, the anthropological thinking that goes behind how we approach our living that

1096
01:08:10,160 --> 01:08:12,200
you'd recommend?

1097
01:08:12,200 --> 01:08:13,960
You know, that's a really good question.

1098
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:18,080
And I was thinking last night about that and looked through my bookcases and all of my

1099
01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:25,680
stuff is so, I won't say nerdy, but it's so specific that I don't, off the top of my head,

1100
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,640
I don't know of any, like just popular sources.

1101
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:36,800
But what I can say is that if you go to any one of the government websites like the EPA

1102
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:43,320
or USGS, the United States Geological Survey, there's lots and lots of information on the

1103
01:08:43,320 --> 01:08:48,920
internet about sustainability, about green living, about gardening and composting and

1104
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:50,780
shopping locally.

1105
01:08:50,780 --> 01:08:56,360
So if you just, I know this is a really generic answer, but if you just, if you have a question

1106
01:08:56,360 --> 01:09:03,080
about how do I reduce my carbon footprint, if you just Google that, there's mountains

1107
01:09:03,080 --> 01:09:05,800
of information on the internet about how to do that.

1108
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:12,000
But even looking at your local county, the county resources, the Lickome County Resource

1109
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:17,320
Management Service has information on their website about how to recycle and how to dispose

1110
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,280
of e-waste or batteries properly.

1111
01:09:21,280 --> 01:09:25,240
So basically most of your state and local government resources will have guidelines

1112
01:09:25,240 --> 01:09:26,900
on how to do things properly.

1113
01:09:26,900 --> 01:09:30,920
Like what if you have a gallon of antifreeze in your garage, what do you do with it?

1114
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:36,440
If you look at those types of resources, that'll be a great guide, you can look up your local

1115
01:09:36,440 --> 01:09:37,440
college.

1116
01:09:37,440 --> 01:09:40,680
Maybe there's departments that would have faculty members that are experts in your particular

1117
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:42,400
area that could help you out too.

1118
01:09:42,400 --> 01:09:47,880
I think too there's a lot of nonprofits out there that champion either sustainable food

1119
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:55,640
production or conservation, the Nature Conservancy, Audubon Society, groups like that, or even

1120
01:09:55,640 --> 01:10:00,720
like the Ocean Conservancy, my sister's employer and nonprofit.

1121
01:10:00,720 --> 01:10:03,680
Those groups are always looking for support and donations too.

1122
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:07,960
So it just kind of depends on what your question is and where you want to go.

1123
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:10,000
It's like, how do I do this?

1124
01:10:10,000 --> 01:10:14,700
I would start with your state and local government and local community organizations.

1125
01:10:14,700 --> 01:10:21,760
But if you are interested in a particular cause, then look for organizations that are

1126
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:27,240
involved with that and see how you can contribute either through your own time or in-kind donations,

1127
01:10:27,240 --> 01:10:28,240
stuff like that.

1128
01:10:28,240 --> 01:10:29,240
And there's tons of books.

1129
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:35,800
I mean, the book that probably got me started down this road, as you can see, it's pretty

1130
01:10:35,800 --> 01:10:36,800
beat.

1131
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:40,040
It's called A Sand County Almanac by Aldo Leopold.

1132
01:10:40,040 --> 01:10:47,280
Aldo Leopold was, he worked for the Forest Service and I think it was like in the 1930s

1133
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:52,040
or 40s, I think is when he started that.

1134
01:10:52,040 --> 01:10:55,720
Yeah, this book was published in 49, so it was earlier than that.

1135
01:10:55,720 --> 01:11:02,280
But there's some really neat moments in this book where he's talking about he was born

1136
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:08,220
and raised in a world, think about the United States in the turn of the century, right?

1137
01:11:08,220 --> 01:11:13,080
Every mountain in central PA was bare at that point because the lumber industry had clear-cut

1138
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:14,680
the whole place.

1139
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:20,880
And getting back to the idea of the Western industrial mindset about nature is there for

1140
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:22,240
us to use.

1141
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:27,240
We clear-cut the woods and made a lot of money and became an industrial superpower.

1142
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:28,560
But it came with a price.

1143
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:34,080
And this guy went to Yale and became a forester and worked for the Forest Service and went

1144
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:37,680
out west and was doing the things that he was told to do.

1145
01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:41,440
But he was going, should we exterminate wolves?

1146
01:11:41,440 --> 01:11:42,760
Are they really a pest?

1147
01:11:42,760 --> 01:11:47,080
Or maybe are they part of a system that we don't quite understand?

1148
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:49,600
Do we as humans have the right to make these decisions?

1149
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:53,240
And it was a really fundamental shift in looking at it.

1150
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:57,320
Because going through school and looking towards a career in conservation, I was like, I'll

1151
01:11:57,320 --> 01:12:01,480
just pull the levers and push the buttons and we'll fix this.

1152
01:12:01,480 --> 01:12:05,880
But it's really a cultural paradigm shift that we're talking about.

1153
01:12:05,880 --> 01:12:08,680
And books like that, that's a good place to start.

1154
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:14,460
It's old school, but there's lots of other books about the human environment interaction

1155
01:12:14,460 --> 01:12:16,920
that are very engaging and approachable, too.

1156
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:18,960
So your local library has plenty of that.

1157
01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:19,960
Great.

1158
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:24,640
And I know you did a presentation here at the college about not quite 10 years ago with

1159
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:25,640
Dr. Noe.

1160
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:26,640
Yeah.

1161
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:28,600
And you were discussing concepts from that book.

1162
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:30,080
So we'll post a link to that video.

1163
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:31,080
Yeah, that's on YouTube.

1164
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:32,080
So yeah.

1165
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:33,080
Awesome.

1166
01:12:33,080 --> 01:12:36,080
Thank you for being here with us today.

1167
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:37,080
It was a pleasure.

1168
01:12:37,080 --> 01:12:38,080
I appreciate it.

1169
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:39,080
Yeah.

1170
01:12:39,080 --> 01:12:40,080
Thank you so much.

1171
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:41,080
All right.

1172
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:42,080
Thank you.

1173
01:12:42,080 --> 01:12:43,080
Thanks.

1174
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:45,960
Thanks for hanging out with us today.

1175
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:50,600
Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts.

1176
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:54,600
Check out our show notes for bookmarks to your favorite sections and links to resources

1177
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:56,640
that we mentioned in today's episode.

1178
01:12:56,640 --> 01:13:01,960
You can also find past episodes and see what's on deck for upcoming ones at pct.edu slash

1179
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:03,600
podcast.

1180
01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:07,120
And of course, we are open to your thoughts, ideas and suggestions.

1181
01:13:07,120 --> 01:13:12,120
So send those over at podcast at pct.edu.

1182
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:13,120
It's been real.

1183
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:20,120
We'll catch you next time.