Chris Holley: The Road to Automotive

00:00:00 Carlos Ramos: Welcome to Tomorrow Makers, where we explore how we learn, live, work, and play now and in the future. I'm Carlos Ramos. 00:00:11 Sumer Beatty: And I'm Sumer Beatty. 00:00:12 Carlos Ramos: Hey, Sumer. 00:00:13 Sumer Beatty: Hey. 00:00:14 Carlos Ramos: What do we got today? 00:00:15 Sumer Beatty: Oh, we have Chris Holley from our automotive department. 00:00:19 Carlos Ramos: This is a great way to end the season. We just got a little silly. 00:00:22 Sumer Beatty: Oh, he had me cracking up. I'll tell you, I am not going to go to a hotel breakfast buffet without thinking of Chris Holley. 00:00:30 Carlos Ramos: Oh my gosh. And the fire. 00:00:31 Sumer Beatty: Yes. Oh my goodness. It's one of those moments where, you know, something just triggers that memory. So I am never going to forget that. 00:00:39 Carlos Ramos: And a suit. I don't think I can think about a suit in the same way and going to a job interview again. 00:00:44 Sumer Beatty: Oh, I know. I think he, he got the point. The best possible suit in Williamsport and he'll tell us all about it. 00:00:50 Carlos Ramos: And we talk about cars too, which is. 00:00:52 Sumer Beatty: Oh, of course. Yes. And I definitely think it's cool because he just kind of seemed to go with the flow. I mean, you talk about being in the driver's seat. He just was 00:01:00 like following his career path wherever it took him. 00:01:03 Carlos Ramos: So let's do this. 00:01:04 Sumer Beatty: All right 00:01:05 Carlos Ramos: Tomorrow Makers. 00:01:13 Sumer Beatty: Okay. So we're here today with Chris Holley, assistant professor of automotive technology. Welcome. 00:01:21 Chris Holley: How are you? Thank you. Great to be here. 00:01:23 Carlos Ramos: Glad to have you here, Chris, after this conversation. I'm not sure where this is going to go. As is starting to turn into practice here, we have like the, the best 10 minutes of the conversation before we're rolling, but, and secretly I've recorded this one. 00:01:40 Sumer Beatty: That's what we're going to do over holiday break, Christmas break, just released the, the, oh, the excerpts. What are they called? The bloopers. The bloopers. Yeah, I wanted to say spoofs. 00:01:50 Carlos Ramos: Bonus reels. 00:01:52 Sumer Beatty: The bonus reels. Yeah, over either Christmas break or, or summer break. So no one knows what's going on, but we, we would 00:02:00 like to learn a little bit more about you, Chris. 00:02:02 Chris Holley: Okay. 00:02:03 Sumer Beatty: Okay. So we know you're instructing automotive technology here at Penn College. So, curious how you, how you got to this point. 00:02:11 Chris Holley: How I got to, to being here. 00:02:14 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. What brought you to this table with us today? 00:02:17 Chris Holley: Well, I was asked, so I showed up. 00:02:19 Sumer Beatty: Okay, let's go back a little farther. No, seriously, to your position at Penn College. And, just the field that you're in. 00:02:27 Chris Holley: Well, automotive, I just ended up gravitating into it. I, everybody during high school had a plan. I'm going to go, I was down in Georgia when I was from ninth grade till a senior. And everybody is, going to UGA, Georgia Tech. Everybody's got a plan and I have no plan. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I have no college plans. So I end up working at a hospital for two years and I was a patient transporter. So I pushed people around. So I 00:03:00 took them from their room to the Diagnostic Imaging Center. So nuclear medicine, CAT scan, ultrasound, the Breast Center. And I did this for two years. And then I finally decided I'd go to school. And I went to a little two year technical school, and I went into computer science because that's what my dad does. He was a computer programmer for his whole life. So I thought, well, I'd do that because K 12 didn't prepare me well for what I wanted to do. You know, they just put a math problem in front of you, do this, and I would, or do this English paper, and I would. So I didn't know. So I end up I was in a two year program and I get a job at Sears in the automotive center and that's what started it because I was just a tire guy, just did tires and I didn't know anything and it was, it was fine. And so I was a tread head and then I was a lube goob. I had to do oil changes and then they let me do electrical work and batteries. And 00:04:00 so I got in with all these other automotive people and they were going to a different school. And there was six or seven going to another technical school, we're all the same age. And I thought, well, maybe I should go there. So I stopped doing the computer science and I changed schools and now I'm into automotive. And so that's how I got into automotive. So now I'm, what, 22, 21, 22. So I still don't have anything going on, but I'm in school. And I'm at Sears for several years as I'm going through classes. And then you get done with school. And so you go get an automotive job and I go to Lexus and I was a bumper to bumper tech and it was okay. I mean, Sears was fun because you're a kid, you don't have all the responsibilities. I mean, I was a little older, but you don't have all the responsibilities and you're going to school from 7:30 to 3:30 and then you're working from 4 to 9:30 and it's the same bunch of us. There's like 00:05:00 11 of us that did this track, but then you go to Lexus and you're with men and women, and this is their life. You know, this is their living, and it was way more serious. So you had to get serious and I was good. But the pressure of constantly trying to make time. I don't know if you guys know how you get paid in automotive. 00:05:20 Sumer Beatty: No, 00:05:20 Chris Holley: it's called flat rate. You get a flat rate dollar hour. So let's say I make $20 an hour and a customer comes in for a rotating balance, and so that pays one hour. So if I get the job done in an hour, I get $20. If I get the job done in a half hour, I still get $20. If it takes me two hours, I only get $20. So the objective is to be quick and efficient so that you can get the job done and get on to the next job and then the next job and you get more than eight hours in a day. Actually, we had to work nine hours, but you turn more than nine hours in a day. So I could turn somewhere from 00:06:00 12 to 15 hours on a given day. So you're turning, eventually I was over a hundred hours a week. So you're turning more than 20 a day on average. And that was good. But then when business slows down, you make nothing, and that was rough. And so with the students now, I, I actually have them do repair orders and write up the repairs they did and how much they'd earn and how much the part costs, how much is the shop getting, and they're very stunned sometimes at how challenging it is. And I'm very much, always want to do better the next time. So, the next day you want to do better than yesterday or the next month. So, I really push myself hard. And eventually, it was too much and I thought I could do something better. So, I ended up leaving the automotive field, completely. I went back to school for computer science, information systems. And then I went into the IT industry. And that's where I thought, well, I'll do this, but I wasn't real happy with that either. 00:06:59 Sumer Beatty: There's a trend 00:07:00 here. 00:07:00 Chris Holley: Maybe it's just me. Oh, it'll get worse when we start talking about businesses I used to work for. They're all closed now. So we already mentioned Sears. Anybody heard of them? So, I was basically in a computer room, and I was doing network administration, and I worked at several different places, and I did that for five and a half years, and I had gotten my own place, I had my own house, and I was, I was doing really well, and one weekend, Friday, I'm not on call, but Friday before I left, the servers go down, and you guys all know what it's like here when we can't get on. So we had a major failure. I'm calling everybody, all the on call people, nobody's coming in. So I'm trying to rebuild, I'm on tech support, it is something. I worked the entire weekend, and nobody came in. Monday, my boss comes in and he's like, how was your weekend? And I said, I was here. And you know, this is back when we still had pagers. Not everybody had cell phones yet. And 00:08:00 so he's like, Oh, you look terrible. So you need to go home. And it's Monday morning and I'm wide awake. So I went up to my former school where I got my associate degree in automotive and Terry Moore sees me and he's like, Hey, you want to teach? And that is how I started the teaching. Literally, I just walked up and walked in. He's like, you want to teach? We got an opening. And I was like, okay. Kind of like Forrest Gump, just stuck. I'm like, ah. And so I was like, sure. And so he said, you need to apply and you need to We're going to have you do a presentation and you have to get everything prepared and they're going to want to do it next week because it's closing and I didn't even know about it. So I prepared everything and I'd never written a lesson plan. I don't have a degree in education. I just taught the way I was taught. That's what I thought I would do. And so we go in and it's Terry Moore, one of my instructors, Ali Afshar, who's really important in my life, another instructor, a 00:09:00 vice president and a secretary. And I was nervous, and now you got to present for two of your former instructors, that's a lot of intimidation. And so, I said, I don't see an overhead projector. I'd made overhead slides and handouts. So, I thought it was going to be in a classroom, but it was kind of in a conference type room like this and we're all seated. And so I just said well I'll teach it from here and I just sat down and handed out everything and I had to teach for 10 minutes and I'd only gone like a minute and a half and Mr. Afshar speaks up and now he's from Iran so he had a very specific sound and he's like, "Stop." And my heart just I was like oh I I've just screwed up and he's like "This is, this is very good. We don't need to hear anything else." And I was like, "Oh, I feel better." Now I'm sweating. It was awful. And 00:10:00 so then they just proceeded to ask me question after question about handling a class, working with the students. And Mr. Afshar just kept asking me questions. And some of them, I just, I didn't have the experience. I don't know. You've got a student that's constantly, you know, harassing and bothering. How are you going to take care of this? What are you going to do? And so over the years you learn. But so I got the job. I just quit IT and I went to work in teaching and that's how I got to there. And right when I started at the school, Ford ASSET was at that school, North Metro Tech. And Ford pulled out, like we used to have Ford here, and they're gone now. So they pulled out of the program, and I remember Mr. Afshar walking over, and he's like, "Can you get your old job back?" And I was like, "Oh no!" I'd only been working for like three weeks. And so they put me in computer science. I was teaching intro classes, and I was teaching other things, because that's my degree. And that was the summer quarter, 00:11:00 we were on quarters. And then in the fall, I started teaching automotive. That was 26 years ago. And so I did that for five years. Then the program decided, the school decided to go to more allied health. We didn't have nursing, so they wanted to add nursing. And so the state had frozen all the teacher salaries. So they couldn't get new salaries, so they had to get rid of people so they could free up salaries, so they cut our automotive program, and I was number four out of the seven. So I, the bottom ones are getting cut, and then I got cut, and so I ended up getting fired. here, eventually. So after five years there, I came here and I didn't know what I was going to do. I didn't know really when they cut my job. I was like, I don't know. And Mr. Afshar came in, I'd interviewed for a couple of places and he came in and he had Automotive News and he said, you need to go to this school. And it was Penn College. And so I applied 00:11:58 Sumer Beatty: They had an ad in there? 00:11:58 Chris Holley: Oh yeah. They had an ad in 00:12:00 there and he said, this is an excellent school. You need to go here. And so I applied and then the whole rigmarole coming here, you know, you have to fly up and interview. And so now you have to do a 10 minute presentation, at least for people you don't know. So when I get here, Mom, Mom was a HR. She was our benefits coordinator for years in HR or People and Culture here. And so, you know, you gotta, you gotta suit up. You gotta wear a suit for your interviews, even though you're interviewing for an automotive teacher, but you gotta suit up. And so you gotta carry all your stuff with you, your notes and everything that you're gonna present and your, all your paperwork. But I checked my bag. And so when I get to Williamsport, my bag didn't make it. So, so it's, it's and the interview is on a Tuesday and I don't know any, anything up here. I go to my hotel for the night and then I go down to the Golden Strip to find places so I could get, you know, toiletries and some 00:13:00 other things. And so I'm like, I don't have a suit. I mean, I'm basically, I got jeans and a t shirt and I'm like, this is going to be horrible. So I called The Clothier and they don't open until 10. Well, the interview starts at 1030. So I'm like, this is bad. So I called at eight o'clock and somebody answered. And I said, what was going on? And I don't have anything and I got to get ready. And he said, calm down right now. And he got a shoes and a suit and tie and everything for me. And I show up on time with my pants already, you know, they're pleated and all sized, everything, I was looking good. 00:13:38 Sumer Beatty: I love you paint this picture. I can just see it. See it happening and see it unfolding. 00:13:42 Chris Holley: It is panic situation. He's like, are you interviewing? You need now, I'd never heard of this. You need a Silver Mist colored shirt? Because I was like, I need white. Nope. Silver Mist. I'm the only one in there. You know, nobody's. He's not even open yet. And so, you 00:14:00 know, it wasn't an inexpensive trip, but I got the suit. I come up here, and I park illegally somewhere in the parking lot, and I got a ticket. Campus Police was on it. 00:14:12 Carlos Ramos: The students will enjoy hearing that one. 00:14:14 Chris Holley: It never got paid. Nobody will want to hear that, because it was a rental car. So, I interviewed, but you, you, you, Colin Williamson was here back then. He's got this thing where he takes you around, does the whole intro, and then he would take you to Veronica Music's office. And she would go over everything with you, and then you had to go, you had to find your way around. You had to go find David Kaye, and and, and, and, People and culture now. And you had to find all these places, but Mr. Williamson didn't ask you here. That was his game. He got you to the first place and then you had to find that. Yeah, that's what he would do. 00:14:52 Carlos Ramos: I got a couple of new hires in the pipeline. 00:14:56 Chris Holley: And then 00:14:56 Sumer Beatty: What does that solve though? 00:14:58 Chris Holley: Well, you had to be able to find your way around 00:15:00 campus. And he wanted you to see it. I mean, he did a little show, but it was kind of a thing with him. And he, he liked it. 00:15:05 Carlos Ramos: Sumer's going to course correct me after this. 00:15:07 Sumer Beatty: That's not nice. I mean, were you given a map? 00:15:10 Chris Holley: Yeah. Oh yeah, I had a map. 00:15:12 Sumer Beatty: Oh, okay. 00:15:13 Chris Holley: Okay. Just asking people. Do you know where this is? No, I had a map. And then you would make it back and then you went to lunch at the Lejeune Chef. Then you had to do the interview in the afternoon. It was a hoot. It was something. You had to go ten minutes. And I went ten minutes because Mr. Williamson's like, don't go short. And don't go long. It needs to be 10 minutes. And you know, I had this thing timed and I'd been teaching for five years, so I had a good idea. And I had to teach electrical because I was going to be doing first year electrical, so I had to do electrical. And Mr. Schoen and I disagreed on something. And it was kind of funny. But after I got hired here, he'd actually talked to me and he said, I kind of explained or asked the question wrong. So I confused you because I was like, Oh, that made me look 00:16:00 bad. But really I didn't. I just, I even told him, we'll have to talk about that after this because I got to get my 10 minutes in. So we did. But it seemed like some of the instructors were like told to do things like interrupt and ask questions. It was quite funny. And we had one instructor that didn't quite meet the the requirements of an interview because they ask you, you're not supposed to ask certain things. Right. And so he asked me who, What is it? The pineapple under the sea is, and that's what something with Spongebob Squarepants or something. 00:16:35 Carlos Ramos: Okay. 00:16:35 Chris Holley: Yeah, I had no idea what that was, and that was kind of a roundabout question to see if I had kids, you know. Oh, that is sneaky. Yeah, it was, and I was like, I have no idea what you're talking about. So, when I started here, they gave me a metal tin with Spongebob Squarepants on it, so now I still have it, but I didn't know what it was. I don't even know what you're talking about, a pineapple under the sea. 00:16:59 Sumer Beatty: I don't either, and 00:17:00 I have a child, so I would have failed. 00:17:02 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, you just gave me all sorts of insight into how Sumer is raising her kid. Very well, by the way. 00:17:10 Sumer Beatty: I try. 00:17:11 Chris Holley: So since then I got the job, and I taught first year electrical one year. And then I've taught second year electrical electronics and air conditioning for the last 20. I teach occasionally first year classes if we don't have a large enough second year class. I'll teach one eight week block of suspension or brakes or engines. So I've taught the AC class here, for instance, 85 times. This is my 85th class. 00:17:38 Sumer Beatty: You're keeping track? 00:17:39 Chris Holley: I haven't. Oh, it's bad. I'm so bad. I have numbers of everything. Do you want to know how many students I've taught? 00:17:45 Sumer Beatty: Yes. 00:17:46 Chris Holley: 1, 120 of AC students. Wow. I don't have the breakdown in my head of the A's, B's, C's, D's, and F's, but I've got it all. 00:17:57 Carlos Ramos: But you have that on paper somewhere. 00:17:58 Chris Holley: Oh yeah. It's in paper. I could 00:18:00 send it over. Yeah, I've got it. Isn't that scary? 00:18:03 Sumer Beatty: I think it's interesting. It's good. It gives you a benchmark. 00:18:06 Chris Holley: Oh, it does. 00:18:06 Sumer Beatty: You know where you are. 00:18:07 Chris Holley: I can tell you based on class size what the approximate average of the class will be. And I can tell you on the first eight weeks of fall, second eight weeks, or the first eight weeks of spring or second eight weeks. 00:18:18 Sumer Beatty: The grade point. 00:18:18 Chris Holley: Yep. 00:18:19 Sumer Beatty: Percent. The percentage grade point. 00:18:20 Chris Holley: Yeah. The average of... 00:18:20 Sumer Beatty: How are we doing, how are we doing? 00:18:22 Chris Holley: Our numbers are good. The, the group that I'll be getting next is normally a little lower. I get 8 week blocks, so the group after the break normally tends down a little bit. And I think it's because it's nice outside and they want to get out of here. And they're normally the last, I'm the last instructor they have for the first two years. So their numbers drop slightly, but they're in the C average area and they're not changing much anymore. 00:18:51 Carlos Ramos: I imagine there's quite a bit of rigor going on there that's creating those C's too. 00:18:55 Chris Holley: I probably have the most homework and the most 00:19:00 assigned lab work out of all the instructors. It's kind of known by everybody. Yeah, it's, I have so much to cover and I get into it and I feel the students are paying a good amount of money. So I should give them way more than they're paying for. And I don't think they want it. I don't think they want it though. It just depends. As we were saying before we started, you know, there's three or four in a class. They're doing their thing. They got it. And there's three or four, maybe five that are really struggling. And then there's the middle. So you're, you're teaching the middle and trying to get the ones that are behind, get them up to speed. And you're trying not to get in the way of the ones that are really excelling. And that's kind of how I've looked at it. And so the bell curve of the classes are pretty good. So I think my theory works pretty well. I have no teaching credentials at all as far as education. So I've just. 00:20:00 done it the way I think it should work. 00:20:02 Sumer Beatty: If we did have a student of yours in here and we asked them to tell us about you, what would they say? 00:20:07 Chris Holley: Oh, well, it depends. Is it a graduate or a current student? Current student. Oh, that might be rough. 00:20:13 Sumer Beatty: You make it. I like the rigor though. That's important. You want somebody that knows what they're doing fixing your vehicle, right? 00:20:20 Chris Holley: Yes. 00:20:20 Sumer Beatty: So that's the way it should be. 00:20:23 Chris Holley: If it was a graduate, they'd be much better. Because my insanity doesn't always work with the current students, but they see when they go out to work. Oh, that's what he was talking about. Or, oh, you know, I keep up with a lot of them, so I know what they're doing. And so, it's good to talk to them. There's some students that I've never seen again. I mean, they're just gone. But there's, I go to dealerships around here, and there's always, graduates in there, and they talk to me, so either they're just, you know, putting up with me while I'm there, or they really want to talk. And then there's others 00:21:00 on Facebook, or they'll email the school email address, or some of them know my other email, and they'll send me stuff or call. So, yeah, I keep up with the graduates, and they do really well. And it's good to see. And they're having children. You know, if you think now, 21 years here. So, you're looking at my first students are now 38, 39. You know, that started at 18 here. So, they're older now than I was when I was teaching them. So, they're in different places now. It's good to see. 00:21:32 Sumer Beatty: A lot of instructors do enjoy keeping in touch with students and following their life's progress. I had somebody else tell me, Oh, I just love seeing them on Facebook and seeing them purchase their first house and get married and have children and get promotions. 00:21:47 Chris Holley: Yes. 00:21:47 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. Very rewarding that way. 00:21:49 Chris Holley: It is. Cause you knew them as 18 year olds or 19 year olds and it's so. It's good to see an adult out of what they were here. It's really, it's 00:22:00 cool. 00:22:00 Carlos Ramos: Do you have any standout stories of students that have just really gone on and done some amazing things? 00:22:07 Chris Holley: Well, I thought about that and I actually sadly went through a large list of students that I talked to and it's four pages long. 00:22:16 Sumer Beatty: Oh my goodness. I wish you all could see this. We've got a yellow notebook, a yellow pad 00:22:22 Sumer Beatty: with four pages of single spaced names and those locations of where they work. 00:22:29 Chris Holley: Yeah. Either where they work or the business that they own or what they're doing now. Cause some of them have left the industry, but there's so many, I just can't nail down one. Cause that would be just not fair. And I was going through these over the last couple of days and, you know, we've got four, instructors now. They were automotive techs, now they're teachers. And that, that I keep up with because, you know, they're all at the high school level. And so we're always 00:23:00 trying to find out what, what's coming in. You know, the COVID thing really changed a lot of what we're getting at times because they missed, they couldn't do hands on in high school. So they're behind when they get here. And I say behind, we start at a certain point and bring everybody up, but We might have to move the goalposts back a little bit because they need a little more help, but we've got so many business owners. I mean, some of them have been in business for 15, 18 years, and they have their own little, little places. And when I say little, they're not all that little. Some are very large and co owners of businesses and technicians. There's so many. And the huge list when I was going through this were BMW techs, and Mercedes techs. And I always say to go to a high line manufacturer if you can, because they tend to have better flat rate hours. They have clientele that are more willing to pay and you know, pay larger amounts. 00:24:00 And so it looks like, I don't know if they followed my advice, but it kind of looks like that's where they've ended up. And we've bunches of students in corporate positions for Ford and General Motors and Subaru. So there, there are a lot of our four year graduates have ended up into the corporate positions and they're dealerships also, service managers and service advisors and financial operations, FinOps people. And so it's just amazing where they've ended up. And then some have left the industry, but they're still in technical areas. So, for instance, if you take my AC class, my AC class is not going to be 100 percent the same as the, you know, the trades here for the, the residential, commercial, and the housing type stuff. But you can take a lot of the information that's provided in my class. You can apply it to air conditioning in a building or a house. It's very 00:25:00 similar. And I have a student that started his own A/C business. So he's doing still the same kind of mechanical type work, just focused on buildings and houses. He also started a business and he has a business that does all that chopped up rubber at playgrounds. You know, at D, they take the belts out and they chop it and he's got a business that actually supplies the rubber for all the playgrounds in the whole area. He's out in the Scranton area. It's very, it's different where some people end up. I have a student that owns a winery. He has his own humongous property and that's what he does is does the, he does the, grows the grapes and the whole thing. It's just. You never know where your, your 00:25:47 Carlos Ramos: degree will take you. 00:25:48 Sumer Beatty: And you had said a four year program versus two year program. The four year is a management. Correct. Okay. So that also may lend itself into, you know, starting the business or 00:26:00 exploring some of those other paths. Correct. Yeah. 00:26:02 Chris Holley: The when we have, like we had Open House Saturday and when we're doing Open House, there's always, it's always the moms that ask the questions. The students don't ask anything, and dad's looking at the car, so it's always mom. And they're asking, what's the difference between the two and the four year program? Well, the first two years are all the same. And then the four year is going to focus on the management. Ron Garner, Dr. Garner, teaches that program. And I did a little bit this semester with him, some, some data. gathering for one of his classes, and he teaches the third and the fourth year. And the students learn all kinds of management related, how to run a dealership, you know, how are you going to have your cash flow, and how do things work. So the students learn that. So they get automotive first two years, hands on, on the cars, and then management. And somebody always asks, well, can they get the two year and then come back later and get the four? Well, of 00:27:00 course you can. But I always say it's the time is free when you're 18, 19, 20, you know, it's, you don't have a lot of responsibilities. So if you can afford to get your bachelor degree all at one time and get out at 22, 23, 24, and then go to work rather than, Leaving here at 20 with an associate and then trying to come back at 27, 28, and now you've got a spouse or a significant other, children, rent, whatever. So, I think that resonates with some parents, but I don't know if the students want to do it, but they want to just go out and make money. There's students that have gotten the two year degree and then gone on to go into, you know, four year, what would be four year type jobs, and so some of them have had to go back to school and then some have gotten a lot more just on the job training, so they had to catch up. They're all doing well. You know, I guess the ones that I don't know about, 00:28:00 you know, they don't talk to me. I don't know what they're doing, but... 00:28:03 Sumer Beatty: Oh, that's an impressive list of communications with past students. 00:28:08 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, but come on. He's got 1100 students. I mean, we got, we need more teachers. 00:28:13 Chris Holley: So, you know, 00:28:14 Sumer Beatty: That's time. That's a time commitment to stay in touch? Well, I think it's admirable. 00:28:18 Chris Holley: I either online or they contact me, you know, sometimes totally out of the blue. You haven't expected it. So this is what happened at, at, at Christmas? During the break I was, you know, I'm applying for, I did apply for my promotion to associate professor and as I was saying, some of you had to, you have to include your student comments for the last, you know, your evaluations for the last five years. And as I said, they can be a little rough sometimes. So I told my wife, well, I'm going to contact some students and just see if they'll write a letter, you know, recommending me for it and you know, graduates. And so I said, I, I don't know. I talked to 'em, but I don't 00:29:00 know if they'll all really do this. And so I'm just sending out over Facebook if you'd be interested. I'll send you an email. Just send me your email. And I said to my wife, Kim, I said, I don't know, maybe, maybe 10 of them will respond, I sent out, you know, a good list. And so I'm sending them out, and they're binging back up, you know, almost instantly. Sure, I'll, I'll do it. What do you need? So I'm sending them out everything, and I couldn't believe it. I mean, as fast as I was typing them in. They're coming back. And I'm like, so I got a lot of letters, you know, sent either to the house or the school in mail or email. And then I printed them out for that, the application, the promotion. And it got to the point where I had my wife read them. because it's too much sometimes. You're like, Oh, I mean, that's like really nice. And you're like, that, you know, it feels good, but you're like, Oh, this might bring a tear. This isn't good. So it 00:30:00 really, some really outstanding things. And so you never think about that when you're teaching, you know, at any given day, but once you've gotten older and now you see it, it's like I did make a little bit of a difference. So, it's good. 00:30:17 Carlos Ramos: Makes it all worth it. 00:30:18 Chris Holley: Yeah, it does, but you never think about it at the time. And so, I'd have to ask him, so, Was that one a good one? Thorough. Good. And I'm like, and she's getting teary, so I'm like, Oh, no. So, I have to read them when she's not around. 00:30:32 Carlos Ramos: I'm picturing that one student that's getting your invitation saying, Okay, this is, I'm going to get, I'm going to get Mr. Holley back now. That's not happening. Come on. 00:30:41 Chris Holley: No, but they were really, so many of them answered so quickly and then sent them in. Now some missed the deadline because they had to be turned in a certain time. 00:30:50 Sumer Beatty: They're not in school anymore. 00:30:51 Chris Holley: So, so I have nice letters, but they didn't make it into the big folders we had to turn in. But, you know, that was really nice. And then, you know, some 00:31:00 of them, it ended up sparking more conversations and talking, you know, about things, so. 00:31:05 Sumer Beatty: I wanted, I was curious just because I'm a writer, I would like to know how you got into writing. And you're writing for industry magazines. 00:31:13 Chris Holley: I wanted to write since about 2009, but I was just sending stuff in. I didn't know how to do it. I didn't know the right people. I just didn't have a clue and I never got any responses. So, we got the chassis dyno, Dr., er, Mr. Williamson got a chassis dyno and we started doing a, a, a class on performance and we didn't have any parts to put performance parts on. He bought this nice big dyno for us, but then I, you know, I gotta do 16 weeks of, you know, Changing parts and are they better they worse performance wise so I contacted a bunch of magazines and I found the smallest Magazine online. I mean like 12 00:32:00 subscribers. I mean just not really tiny and I said that if you could send the part to us, you know, a company, you know, through the magazine, send the part to us, we'll install it, we'll evaluate it, I'll write a story, and then we'll be able to keep the part, so then I can use it for each semester following. And so this, Richard Kratz was his name, it was Mopar Max, and he said, write something, write something for me. and send it in and let me see what it looks like. And so he, I did, and he goes, okay, it was all right. And then he said, we'll get a part out to you and we need you to test it. And you need to have it done by this day and turn it in and just type it all up, do the photos, the captions. And so I did, and that's how it all started. 00:32:49 Sumer Beatty: Oh my goodness. So you traded writing for parts for the class. 00:32:52 Chris Holley: For the school. 00:32:53 Sumer Beatty: Okay. That's really neat. 00:32:55 Chris Holley: And then as we. started not running the dyno class as much. 00:33:00 I was writing for more magazines doing the same thing. Well, now they want me to keep writing, but we don't have any dyno stuff. So I started doing my own thing, my own little, my cars and not doing anything with the school affiliation. So it was all with me. So now the parts were coming to me and then they start paying you money. So you're like, Hey, so. It, it was really escalating, and then I met a gentleman that was an editor for one of the magazines, but he was no longer with that company, and I said, how do I get in with this magazine? And so he told me, write up a whole big story, photos, and then send it to me. to, you know, his name was Johnny Hunkins, send it to him at Mopar Muscle Magazine, and send it certified mail, so it'll be, you know, it's, he got it, and have your CDs in it, and so I did, and he calls me, and he's, he was, he's really very stern man, and he wants things done a very 00:34:00 specific way. And so I, made a suggestion and he said can you actually write that and I was like, I can and I can test it and I can verify it and so then he's like, well, all right, I want, and he does characters, most people are like, I want 500 words, 1, 500 words, 2, 000 words, I want 10, 800 characters. And I'm like, holy smokes, that is hard to do. Cause you're literally trying to find another word. I got a five letter word. What's a four letter word that'll fit? And so you're really working. And so, sent stuff into him, and he's, you know, I had to buy the part originally. Cause they just thought you were scamming them. So I had to buy the part. And then they would Pay me back plus a small amount for the story. And so after I did the first one, then he just started having the part sent. I didn't have to buy 'em and he was working with me and I did this oil story, AMSOIL story, and that thing just took off. 00:35:00 It just blew up big time. It was on M-S-N-B-C and it's just, it went everywhere. And 00:35:06 Sumer Beatty: so, sorry, what was this about? 00:35:08 Chris Holley: Oil. Engine oil. Transmission fluid. Differential fluid. I think there's like you know, it's one of those things that everybody has an opinion about. You know, oil. 00:35:17 Carlos Ramos: Everybody has an opinion. 00:35:18 Chris Holley: So that story got comments galore and, you know, you learn as you do this long enough, people will throttle you, you know, this and that. This is just a paid advertisement and, you know, it's not very good and then other people love it. Well, a gentleman from mobile Exxon who was an engineer wrote me and he was like, where did you get this data? And I was like, I read and I research and I check and he's like, there's things here that a lot of people don't know about and how would you know about it? And I didn't tell him, but I had the Exxon mobile tech notes. So, so I was able to find things that, you know, make it work in the story. And that all came through because of one of our 00:36:00 substitute tool room attendants, you know, who's in the aviation industry. And that's how this, this gentleman got ahold of me. But I had good information and it was right. And the story was great, but I made one typo in one of my, my photos. I made a a typo. and illustration. And I got the letters out of order. It used to be P O A and I did P A O and I screwed it up. So nobody ever noticed, but I did. So but then I just started doing my own stuff and the Mopar Max magazine closed, Mopar Muscle closed. You know, I, I, maybe it's my writing. I'm closing them down. So I was working for big magazines and then in 2019 they The Motor Trend Group closed 19 titles in one day. Magazine titles shut them down. And so all of those writers and photographers are now displaced. And I'm just a little 00:37:00 freelance, you know, I got a really good job and I got nice benefits and I'm not flying out to events everywhere, so I'm doing local stuff. So I kind of got moved back, you know, I'm on the back burner, I'm used occasionally. So I got into the smaller magazines again, all online now, and so that's what I do a lot more. Mopar Connection, I write all the time for them. One article a week, two articles a week, all the time. 00:37:26 Sumer Beatty: Oh, wow. 00:37:26 Chris Holley: Yeah, I do about 70 to 80 articles a year. So, just depends. Sometimes it's just new products. Sometimes it's tech stories events, car shows, drag racing, or other events. So, whatever. And I'm kind of given You can do what you want, you know, you just enjoy yourself and as long as it's, in this case, Chrysler specific, you know, so that's what I do. And then I got a column, my own AC column, Cooling Corner with Chris, and so it's in the Max, 00:38:00 Max Action magazine. It was eight times a year, now they're down to six times a year, and it was a print and online, now it's just online. And it's one of our former graduates that was here before I was here, works there. And so when I went down to MAX Training, the Mobile Air Climate Society Association, when I'd go down to training, They would talk to me and then he said, do you want to do something? And I was like, I, I don't know. And 500 words, that's all it can be. And it's 500 every time they get 500 from me. I mean, I'll take words out or I'll put words in. It'll be 500 and that's what they, they want. And so I pick what I want to do. Now it's every other month. And there's a new, it's just in online now, there's no print. And so I, it used to be a guest column. Everybody got to write and you know, so they asked me and so I wrote it and I told my wife, I'm going to end this. So they'll ask me to do another one. And so I did all about 00:39:00 radiators of all things, radiators. And so then I said, and next month we'll cover radiator caps. And so I know I wrote, and next time we. We meet, we'll discuss radiator caps. And so then they wrote me and said, well, you need to write about radiator caps now. So then I did. And then they're like, do you just want to do this all the time? And I was like, okay. So I've been doing it three and a half years. So I got that one. So . 00:39:26 Sumer Beatty: That's nice. Do you ever have students who are interested in writing in that capacity? 00:39:30 Chris Holley: I've had one and I got him in touch with some editors and then he really didn't follow up. So he just, he wanted to do what he wanted to do and he wanted just free parts and so it didn't work out for him. But I've had one ask and I've asked students if they'd be interested because the editors are always, Hey, is there anybody? Because they're, they're struggling in certain 00:40:00 magazines to get writers, especially if it's a very specific area, you know, just General Motors or just Chrysler or just new cars. So none of the students have taken me up on it, but I've, I've asked, the one really was into it, and then unfortunately he didn't finish here, and I've lost track of him. I know he's in New Jersey, but I don't know what he's doing. So, no, nobody yet. 00:40:24 Sumer Beatty: Okay, you never know, there's still time. Do you ever write about electric or hybrid? And I know you have an interest in those areas. 00:40:32 Chris Holley: Yes I did a story for Motor Age magazine and that was a huge story and it was all EV air conditioning. And it's really interesting because The EV cars don't have engines. There's no heat because there's no engine. So we're using the air conditioning to heat the interior. And it's all in how the refrigerants being moved around in the system. So I wrote a huge story on 00:41:00 that and I had all the data to go with it and temperatures and pressures and that story did really well, but I've not written again for Motor Age. They're very, very, they're great, but they really line up their year. Yeah, year out. I mean, they've got everything planned and it's hard to, you know, get a spot. There's so many writers again, but that story was really huge and I called it the EVlution Continues. And then I've done other heat pump stories, a feature for Max magazine. And then the EV stuff, Mr. Probst, Chuck Probst and I are both EV Pro Plus Level One certified. Thank you. And there's less than a hundred people in the country that have the cert, and I'm number 49, he's 50 because I'm alphabetically ahead of him. So we took that class. It was six weeks of videos, and so you're, the first, the 00:42:00 first video, you're, you're just kind of watching it, and it's safety, and you're like, I'll watch it. You're listening and then you take the test and you have to get a 100 and I got an 80 and you're like, oh man. So then you had to get serious and there was You had 10 attempts to, to pass and get 100 and you're like, wow. And so you finish the first one, you do it again, you get 100. Mr. Probst did the same thing, kind of just I'll pass and then he, he had to do it again. So then the second video and it's hours. And you're taking notes on your yellow pads here in the basement. Keep repeating back, what did he say, what did he say? And you're, hours and hours. And then you take that one, you get 100. And I got 100, so did Mr. Probst on all of them. But it was. It was six weeks in the basement, you know, just, just trying to stay away from noise and just writing notes and trying to keep up. And then you had to have all the tests passed before you could go to class. So you got a time limit. And then, you know, we had to get the 00:43:00 provost to provide us money to go. And so now you're really under the gun. You're like, Oh, I got to pass this class. And so it's three days. Two and a half days. And the last day is testing, written, online, 103 questions, a very strange number, and the hands on. And so you, you have two hours to do the written test. And so I'm going through and it's literally getting to be sweat time. You're like, cause you're, you're like, I'm like on question 89 and you're like, Ooh, I'm getting close. I mean, you got to get an 80 or better on this. And you're like, Ooh. And so I finish and I passed and I'm like, and I was the second one done. But the other gentleman had already passed the hands on, he had to re do the written, so he was at this event. So, then I was the first one to do the hands on, and so I put all the gloves on, you do all the testing. And so, I'm done, and then Mr. Probst gets done a little 00:44:00 while after. And I'm looking in the window, and there's almost a bunch of the class still thrashing, trying to get done. And 7 out of 16 of us passed. 00:44:09 Sumer Beatty: Wow. 00:44:10 Chris Holley: It's, it was tough. And then there's level two this year and we're both like, I want to do it, but I don't know if I want to do it because there's so much work and there's going to be end up being four levels of this eventually. And. So it's going to be something. And Mr. Probst does the EV class, and then I do the AC with the heat pumps. So I'm in the EV. 00:44:32 Sumer Beatty: That's what I was going to ask you. What pieces of those translate into your instruction at the College? 00:44:36 Chris Holley: Well, I do the electronics, so there's some EV stuff I do there. But now we've changed the, we've, took the hybrid EV class out and made it a three credit. Now we did that last fall when we moved Mr. Probst over to, from Honda to our, our program, the general program. And so he does a four week EV twice uh, twice a semester. And then I 00:45:00 do that, the heat pump stuff for AC. So we swap cars around after I leave here, I'm going to go get some cars and swap them over to my lab for tomorrow. And he does a lot of the EV stuff now, but we're still not to the point where we can remove the batteries with the students, because it's, it's dangerous. Because there's this phenomenon called studentized cars. Students work on them so many times, they'll trim pieces, clips, little bolts, screws get lost, damaged. You don't want that with a battery. A high voltage battery, you don't want anything damaged. And so we're going to do the best we can. And I'm sure he'll, he'll find one a car that has a discharged battery. It's a failed car and we'll get it donated and then we can remove that. And then they can do it. And if they damage it, It's not going to cause a fire in the lab because that's a concern. So, yeah, the EV stuff is, I don't know where we're going with it. You guys might see now that the manufacturers are backing 00:46:00 off on their production. They're not selling. The public doesn't want them as much. There's about 2. 7 million of the EVs in this country on the road now, and that seems like a big number, except it's less than 2 percent of the total cars. And the charging, the infrastructure, is going to be a huge, huge concern. I mean, on campus, what do we have, four chargers? 00:46:24 Sumer Beatty: That sounds right. 00:46:25 Chris Holley: Two over on our side and two out here. 00:46:27 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, I know there's two areas. 00:46:30 Chris Holley: And then there's six or eight at Sheetz and then whatever, what is that, Wawa's coming in across? So just imagine if we have 60 percent of our population that needs to plug in by 2030. What is our parking lot going to look like? I mean, we're going to have to have charging stations. You can't have 20 charging stations to cover all of our population. 00:46:52 Carlos Ramos: In an area like ours, where you have a lot of people who own their homes and can charge at home, that's one thing, but you get into an urban 00:47:00 center, and if you have street parking, you're not charging your car. 00:47:04 Chris Holley: It's a real problem, and here at the campus, it's a real problem. I mean, they're in their dorms. I mean, they got to have charging stations out in the lots and then plowing will be fun and winter will be fun. And the amount of energy we're going to consume to charge these cars is just phenomenal. So, in the times, you guys go to gas stations, it takes like five minutes and you're in and you're out. You do a fast charger, a DC fast charger, you're looking at 20 to 40 minutes to charge a car. So, you're at the the service center a lot longer, and that's, are they going to make the, the, not gas stations anymore, the charging station area six times larger to cover the amount of people? It's going to be something. 00:47:52 Sumer Beatty: So is hybrid that good, nice balance or? 00:47:56 Chris Holley: I like hybrid. I like plug in. I think plug in hybrids, 00:48:00 I really think it's the thing for now. We need less natural resources to make the batteries. They can be smaller. And you can drive your car around 25 30 miles on electric and then the gas engine turns on. And everybody knows where a gas station is. Everybody can find one and everybody can pump gas. And everybody knows how to plug into the wall a 110. So I think that's really a nice way to go. I'm, General Motors put an announcement out on, this, this earlier this week that they're looking at plug in now and they're backing off on their EVs because they were thinking on 2025, 100 percent EV across the board, it's not happening. 00:48:40 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, that was a real bold announcement. 00:48:44 Chris Holley: Yes. So they're backing off and General Motors and Honda had a joint venture. They discontinued it. They're not doing it. And there's many manufacturers slowing down. We just don't have the charging. That's a huge problem. And if you 00:49:00 really want me to get technical, I mean, I don't want to go long, but the average household uses about 10, 500 kilowatt hours per year. The average house. If you get a Tesla 3, it's going to need about 0. 25 kilowatt hours to drive per mile. So if you drive it a normal. Like 2022, the average traveling of a person driving a car in this country was 14, 263 miles. That's kind of sad. I know right off the top of my head. 00:49:35 Sumer Beatty: I'm impressed with just your name recognition of all these people throughout your history, but go ahead. 00:49:41 Chris Holley: So if you're looking at that kind of mileage with a Tesla 3, you're looking at, rough math, 3, 500 kilowatt hours per year to charge at the house. So that's a third more of what the average household is. And then let's say you decide to get a Lightning truck. Well it's .51 kilowatt 00:50:00 hours per mile, and over the same mileage it would come out to, you know, roughly 7, 000 kilowatt hours per year. So that's 10, 500 in two cars. You doubled the consumption. at your house. Can all the houses withstand that? Do you have a 100 amp service, 200 amp service, 400 amp service? And, all right, I'm the only one in the neighborhood that has one. Well, that's probably okay. What happens when everybody in your neighborhood has two electric cars? It's going to be a problem. Transformers, the big things on the poles. They're passive cooling. During the day, they're running all of our buildings and everything at the house, and then in the evenings, more stuff shut off, and so they cool at night. When do they want us to charge our cars? At night, when it's off peak times, so the transformers will not cool off as effectively, so your lifespan shortens 00:51:00 of the transformers. That's a problem. And they have new transformers that they'll put in. They're larger and heavier. So all the poles will have to be replaced. And that's a huge cost. And the transformers now, depending what you read, they can supply, you know, 50 houses down to maybe only 30 houses. And all of a sudden you double everything. Well, now you're down to, you know, 10 to 15 houses. So we'll need more of them. And I would bet not every single part is made in this country for those. So now we've got another concern. It's something, it's really something. You guys want to read all about it. Palo Alto, California wants to be the first city to be 100 percent carbon free by 2030. and they're not close. And what's interesting, they want to go to all the what do they call the renewables? The solar and the wind. And they've got to get all 00:52:00 the permits and everything to build these big solar farms and the wind farms. And in California, with some of the legislation in the various cities, it will take six to eight years to get the paperwork done. And so that will put us past 2030 or really close and they're going to be closing the Diablo Canyon nuclear plant in 2030. And then four natural gas sites in, in Northern Central California. So, it's going to be something and then you just doubled or tripled the amount of demand. And I don't know if you keep up with Pacific Gas and Electric, but they've had some problems with the forest, catching the forest on fire. You know, all the forest fire. Some of 'em have been because of their electrical, because there's laws in California, you can't clear cut back so far away from the, the, the electrical lines because of, you know rare trees or rare animals or you know, 00:53:00 something that's on an endangered list. And so their cables get whipping in the, in the, in the bad weather, and they catch a tree on fire. And then we have a forest fire. And they don't, they don't burn the brush, you know, on a annual or biannual basis. So now we got a fire. So they have a thing called public safety power shutoff. And so if it's bad weather, they'll shut off your power. And so now you can't charge your cars or your house. So it's, it's very concerning. And you guys may have read California has brownouts all the time. Well, now let's add double the amount of demand. 00:53:36 Carlos Ramos: Sounds like we need some really good systems design thinking. 00:53:40 Chris Holley: We need some really smart people in the right places. And maybe we don't need to force EV drastically by a certain date. 2030 is really close to go to EV. You know, ban gas sales in certain states, that's really close. I don't know, I mean, we can really build up quickly, 00:54:00 but, you know, our charging, we're going to be so far behind. California gets like a month behind on their planned charging stations every month. So, I mean, it just keeps multiplying, they're not keeping up. 00:54:11 Sumer Beatty: How do you stay in touch with all of this news? Like, what resources are you 00:54:16 Chris Holley: Oh, I I read everything. I read, and then I've got a whole list of students I talk to, and I talk with other people in the department, but I had when 2022, Dr. Webb and I had to go down to Washington and talk in front of congressional members about EVs and so that's when I started doing all the research and now I just keep up. 00:54:43 Sumer Beatty: Bringing it full circle, you had talked about all these students that you had touched base with and then it made me think about like a mentor that you may have. And you mentioned somebody earlier, and I just, I thought that might be a nice way to just kind of bring things together. Is there 00:55:00 somebody that you look up to who's been a mentor for you? 00:55:02 Chris Holley: It was Ali Afshar, and he was my instructor when I was an automotive technician, the gentleman from Iran that I'd mentioned. And he was the smartest. just the sharpest man. I mean, he'd get just, you know, kind of upset in class and he'd go in his office and do differential equations to relax. I mean, he was a smart, he was an engineer. And so when he was my instructor, I mean, he was just wide open and he was always there to help. And he was just the best. When all of us get together, graduated, we all have a million stories and it's the, it's the most fun. I got to work with him for five years. So they had him, you know, with. He taught me about teaching and he would, he would, you would make a lesson the best way I could. He called them Lecture and Demonstrate and that's what it still is on the top of my notes today. And he 00:56:00 would, I would write it and then he'd go over it. How long do you think this is going to take in your class? And you'd say, well, I don't know, 45 minutes, an hour, and he said, okay. And I was pretty good at getting my times. When a student, when you get to this, a student's going to ask you this. How are you going to handle it? What are you going to do? And he'd, he'd do this over and over. And I always would make sure I got to work before he did. And I always made sure I was still at work when he left, but I was working. I wasn't just watching him leave. And he would come in the morning and I'd have stuff ready and he's like, well, what do you have everything you need? And he'd be like, no, do this car or use this. And he would help you with everything. You had a problem with the student and he'd have, you know, how to, how to work with them and how to handle each situation. And he was always there and he was just the best. And I told you, he even found this. job for me. I mean, it was the best. And then in four years 00:57:00 ago, well, he got very ill after I came up here and he actually asked me to come back and teach down there. But I met a woman up here at the time and I wasn't super happy here at the time. I'd been here about five years. And I was struggling a bit, but I just didn't want to do the whole move thing again and the pay was going to be not as good as when I left from there and I was doing well here. I am doing well. And so that's the only time I probably didn't do something that he had hoped or asked for. Well, four years ago, he had gotten sick in '08, '09, and he passed away in 20. late in 2020, and that was very sad because he we would stay in touch just enough and I knew he'd retired and he'd moved to Arizona and it was just sad, but he was always the one when you had a question, he was the one and he 00:58:00 always had the right answer. And, do you guys know who Jim Croce is, a music singer? He looked just like him. Had the mustache from the 70s, and he had Forrest Gump sneakers, the white Nike sneakers with the red swoosh that's what he wore all the time. And he always had the right answer, and he always knew where the students were going to get hung up and where you're going to have difficulties and he would tell you ahead of time if you're going to teach this transmission you need to take it completely apart. If you've never done it before you need to take it all apart and find the areas you get hung up, take pictures of things so you have photographs to show the students and you know he was just, he he was good. And if I didn't have him, I don't know how I would teach now, but he was good. And he worked well with my personality. 00:58:48 Sumer Beatty: What about any takeaways for our audience? 00:58:51 Chris Holley: When you're in Automotive Tech you work by yourself. So if you're a real, real social butterfly, it, you know, flat rate is not going to be your friend. I 00:59:00 always talk to my students about customs. Looking at the Myers Briggs testing and see where you fall or any type of predictive indices or Jordan Peterson does the five parts of a personality. And I always go over what I am with the students just to show them I am exactly where I'm supposed to be. I mean, When you look at it, it's like you know, mechanical engineer, electrical engineer, college professor, aviation technician, automotive, I am literally where I'm supposed to be. And it's very fulfilling. And when I watch some students and you're just like, No, this is, you can't say it and you do the best you can, but you're just not, this isn't for you. Some of them are super sharp and their talent runs out right about where their wrist starts. Their hands just don't do the job and some just don't pick it up. And so, I always want them to find where they need to be. We have students that are service advisors, and that's 01:00:00 a different thing. They need to talk, and they need to be, you know, more empathetic. And while we're going to work on this, we're going to take care of this for you. Whereas, I might not be as smooth at that. I might be a little too blunt, and I don't really want to talk that much, although I didn't prove that right here. But there's, I think that's important that they pick what they need to do, because you're going to work. I tell them, you're 20, you're going to work 47 more years when you leave here. If you leave with an associate degree, it better be something you like. 01:00:31 Carlos Ramos: That's a great place to button this one up. Thank you, Chris, for joining us. 01:00:35 Chris Holley: You're welcome. Thank you. 01:00:36 Sumer Beatty: Thank you so much. It was fun. 01:00:38 Chris Holley: Thanks. It was. 01:00:41 Sumer Beatty: Thanks for hanging out with us today. 01:00:42 Carlos Ramos: Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen to your podcasts. 01:00:47 Sumer Beatty: Check out our show notes for bookmarks to your favorite sections and links to resources that we mentioned in today's episode. 01:00:53 Carlos Ramos: You can also find past episodes and see what's on deck for upcoming ones at pct.edu/podcast.01:01:00 01:01:00 Sumer Beatty: And of course. We are open to your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions. So send those over at podcast@pct.edu. 01:01:08 Carlos Ramos: It's been real. 01:01:10 Sumer Beatty: Catch you next time.