Joe Dibucci: Concrete Science

00:00:00 Carlos Ramos: Welcome to Tomorrow Makers, where we explore how we learn, live, work, and play now and in the future. I'm Carlos Ramos. 00:00:11 Sumer Beatty: And I'm Sumer beatty. 00:00:12 Carlos Ramos: And I think we've both had too much coffee this morning. 00:00:15 Sumer Beatty: Speak for yourself, I'm good. I only had one. Do I have extra energy? 00:00:19 Carlos Ramos: You are. You were like on fire today. You're like, you're very animated, very physical, the hands are raising. 00:00:25 Sumer Beatty: It's, oh my gosh, it was a blast. It was so much fun. We have Joe DiBucci with us. And he is a faculty, building construction instructor. And, yeah, he's, he was bringing the passion. So I was just a mirror of that, I guess. He loves what he does. It was such a great conversation. 00:00:43 Carlos Ramos: It was. And, and, you know, the funny thing was, I don't, I think we go like five or ten minutes and I, and I'm like, I look over at Joe and I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, I'm here. You and I are just blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:00:52 Sumer Beatty: Oh, have we talked too much do you think? 00:00:55 Carlos Ramos: I don't know. I think we had some fun. 00:00:56 Sumer Beatty: Oh, you mean our energy was too much? He said he had coffee too. He did. He's so chill. 00:01:03 Carlos Ramos: He is chill. Yeah. You know, he's got the little concrete trinkets that he has that, you know, probably keep him grounded. 00:01:10 Sumer Beatty: Maybe we need crystals. Maybe that'll slow me down a little. 00:01:14 Carlos Ramos: No, we don't need you slowing down. . . 00:01:17 Sumer Beatty: Ah, we're so, yeah. So I guess you can kind of under understand the energy here today. I can't even talk straight. So we hope you have fun with this one and enjoy just as much as we did. 00:01:32 Carlos Ramos: Alright, so enough about us. Who do we have today? 00:01:35 Sumer Beatty: Ah, we have Joe DiBucci with us today. Welcome. 00:01:38 Joe DiBucci: It's good to be here. Thanks for having me here. 00:01:40 Sumer Beatty: So when he walked back into the office, everybody that. Passed by was like, oh my goodness. We saw him as a student and now like flash forward, here he is again. Like he's famous. 00:01:51 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, it happened. Happened pretty quick. 00:01:52 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. 00:01:53 Joe DiBucci: It's good to be back. Felt like I never really left, you know? 00:01:56 Sumer Beatty: Is that, yeah. Okay. I guess that's a natural question, so I. What brought you back? I mean, we love it. We love it. We love it. We're not just, I mean, it's almost like everybody says, okay, Penn College feels like a home. It's a family. I don't know if that's part of it. Like, 'cause you didn't grow up around here, right? 00:02:15 Joe DiBucci: No, I grew up in Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, about three and a half hours away. I didn't really know anything about the school until my brother decided to come here. And then I finally, you know, learned more about it. Heard about the new program coming up, which was the Concrete Science. I was one of the first students enrolled about two years before I was even able to be enrolled. and then, yeah, that's all. That's all it. 00:02:42 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, wow. So, you graduated 00:02:47 Joe DiBucci: 2018? 00:02:49 Sumer Beatty: Okay. 00:02:50 Joe DiBucci: No, it was 2020. 2020. COVID got affected. 00:02:54 Sumer Beatty: Gotcha. 00:02:55 Joe DiBucci: We're in the beginning of COVID, 00:02:56 Sumer Beatty: Okay. Everybody knows about that. 00:02:58 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. It's all blur. 00:02:59 Sumer Beatty: Right. 00:02:59 Carlos Ramos: And you came for the concrete and stayed for a four year completion, right? 00:03:07 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, so I started with the building construction two year, CB program associates. And then after my two years was done, I jumped right into the concrete. And then I had some free time, free classes available to take. So then I had a minor in sustainable design as well. Oh, okay. And then all that together is a bachelor of applied technology. So it was cool to learn about the construction and then get into a building material such as concrete, really learn about that, and then also learn about sustainable design at the same time, trying to use all three of the degrees to kind of create, you know, a different building process or just to be able to combine them all. it was really a good experience, I guess, as a student. 00:03:49 Sumer Beatty: So you graduated, then you went into industry, you went. I heard maybe there was a family business involved. 00:03:56 Joe DiBucci: Yes. 00:03:57 Sumer Beatty: Tell us about that. 00:03:57 Joe DiBucci: So the family business, so what really got me into concrete, I mean, ever since I was a young boy, always going to the job site with my dad, we have a family business that's been around since 1956. So my great grandfather started it. My grandfather worked in it alongside his brother. And then now my father and uncle are in it. And now the next up is me and my brother, we're fourth generation concrete finishers. Some would say, small business in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. but ever since I was a young kid, really going on the job, you know, just seeing this concrete truck show up. You know, gray stuff come out and then get hard. I didn't really know much more than that other than, you know, having to work quick, especially in the summertime, mostly when I worked, and it's a perishable product. You got one chance, that's a challenge, but it's enjoyable if you can master it and work efficiently. the big thing is teamwork when it comes down to it. Concrete or really anything, but what concrete such an important, I don't want to say important, just, like I said, perishable product to where you only get one chance. So it's not like you can go and tear it out and redo it. I mean, you can, but, and we've done it before, but it's not fun. 00:05:14 Carlos Ramos: No, I would say look around you. I mean, you know, you can just look at the windows here and just how much concrete, we can see. I mean, there's some brick too, but there's, you know, concrete and asphalt, but I see a lot of concrete and I think anyone that, you know, anywhere you are, you look around and I mean, it's modern civilization would not be possible without that material. 00:05:35 Joe DiBucci: Just imagine a world without concrete. I mean, well, what do you guys think the biggest, you know, thing you'd be missing? Without concrete, what would you see more of? 00:05:44 Sumer Beatty: Oh, I've been waiting for this moment. Seriously, no one has asked us any questions on this podcast so far. We are now at what episode? 14, 15. 00:05:54 Carlos Ramos: 15. 00:05:54 Sumer Beatty: 15, 00:05:55 Carlos Ramos: 16 maybe. That's, 00:05:56 Sumer Beatty: There's a bell. There's something. You win a free prize. I have. The other day I was thinking, no one's asked us any questions. I love it. I don't have an answer for you, but I'm just so excited. Someone asked us a question. Sorry, what was the question? What do we think is what, what would we miss? 00:06:19 Joe DiBucci: Imagine a world without concrete. I mean, what would it affect in your day to day activities? 00:06:24 Sumer Beatty: I don't know. The first thing I thought of was I like to run. And. I'd much rather run on dirt than pavement, so I don't know that I'd miss, I'd miss that, but, I mean, heck, imagine driving to work and not having a solid surface to drive on, how rough that would be. In the buildings that we're working in, everything, it's, yeah, like you said, you look around, everything is concrete. What would our building be like that we're in if we didn't have concrete? 00:06:50 Carlos Ramos: Oh my gosh, yeah, it's, it's, this building, I mean the floors are probably concrete underneath here, right? Mm hmm. the walls are definitely concrete. 00:06:58 Joe DiBucci: Foundation, probably. 00:06:59 Carlos Ramos: Yeah. I mean, yeah. 00:07:00 Sumer Beatty: We'd be slowly sinking into the ground day after day if we didn't have concrete. 00:07:05 Carlos Ramos: But you and I bike, now there's a lot of asphalt that we're biking on, but every single bridge we go over. 00:07:12 Sumer Beatty: That's true. 00:07:12 Carlos Ramos: Concrete. 00:07:13 Sumer Beatty: Mm hmm. 00:07:13 Joe DiBucci: Yep. 00:07:14 Carlos Ramos: So you'd have to ford all those creeks and rivers. 00:07:19 Sumer Beatty: Well, the bridge, yeah. How would we get from, like, I live in South Williamsport and there's, I can't get over here without a bridge. I mean, I could, it would just be, it would be a lengthy process. I would need a boat. 00:07:28 Carlos Ramos: I think the first one was wooden. 00:07:30 Sumer Beatty: Oh, it's no longer here. It's the remains that you see on the river when you look down. So yeah. It's solid. 00:07:39 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. It's good insight. I'm glad you guys, glad I flipped the script there. 00:07:45 Sumer Beatty: I like it. Okay. Now that you've done that, don't do it again. It makes me a little uneasy. I'll start asking our guests, can you please provide me the questions you're going to ask me in advance? Like I will for you. 00:07:59 Joe DiBucci: I just thought it would be a good thing for the audience to think about. Oh, you're right. Yeah. Think of like a day to day activity without concrete, you know, it's just hard to imagine. 00:08:08 Carlos Ramos: So that's everyone's homework. You now have to think about this, hit pause, and then I want you to let us know by email, podcast@pct.edu. 00:08:21 Sumer Beatty: Somebody send us an email. 00:08:22 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, somebody send us something. 00:08:23 Sumer Beatty: We have not gotten any emails that I know of. 00:08:25 Carlos Ramos: You know, I was so worried about 00:08:26 Sumer Beatty: And if you did, sorry because I didn't respond because I didn't see them. Yeah, let us know what you're thinking about, about concrete. And I think from a career perspective, you were exposed to concrete because you grew up with it. What about, that isn't honestly like it's people think about being the standard professions. Concrete science is not something that usually comes up, right? Like career fairs. I don't know if you've been involved in a career fair yet or anything like that, but. I don't think students out there would even, that wouldn't come across their radar, right? Like, who thinks of that? 00:08:59 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, if they're not really shown it, I mean, they don't really have the opportunity to work with it. that's where it kind of goes into the high schools or the technical schools, affiliated with the high schools. They have to start teaching it to really let the students know that, hey, this is an option for you for a career. It's one of the biggest industries out there. It's the second most used material, second to water. Ugh. 00:09:20 Sumer Beatty: Okay, so water is the that answer. 00:09:22 Joe DiBucci: Yes. Yeah. I coulda asked you that one. Yes. 00:09:27 Carlos Ramos: For those not watching the podcast, cause you can't, Sumer immediately raised her hand. Me, me, me. I know, I know, I know. 00:09:35 Sumer Beatty: I have, I have. That actually blew my mind though. It was like the second most consumed, it was the word consumed was used to water and we all know how much we're water basically, you look around the globe, it's waters everywhere and just second place is concrete. 00:09:52 Joe DiBucci: And you use a lot of water in the concrete, so I mean that's taking a lot of the concrete, the water too, adding into it I guess. So, yeah, it's pretty wild to think about. And there's just so many jobs available that people just don't think of. I mean, just getting into testing the concrete, or mixing the concrete, or pouring the concrete, or, there's a lot of different avenues for people that just don't, they don't know. And they're normal avenues as well. So like management, stuff like that, accounting, things like that. Having that basic knowledge of concrete as a building material can really allow students to go a lot of places in the industry, it's just letting them know that and getting the word out there. So we're really trying to work towards getting, communicate with the CTC schools and technical schools and making sure the students are at least getting some sort of intro to the product or the material, to see if that's an interest to them for a future, you know. 00:10:48 Sumer Beatty: What's the science part of it? I mean, before I knew about the program here, I would have thought, well, concrete's a substance. It's one thing. It's what's on the sidewalk. It's what's in the brick. It's everything. Everything's this one thing. But it's not. 00:11:04 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, it's, I mean, it's so much more than that, when it comes down to the science of it, you really learn about the mixed design. So like what goes into it, what creates the reactions that cause the concrete to get hard, things like that. You learn about the science, as well as making concrete. You learn how to make your own concrete, which is really interesting to me. And then you can really manipulate it. and do some science, you know, some experiments, I guess you could say, creating different mix designs and things like that. That's what really caught my attention was the ability to kind of make your own mix design and have the ability to impact, the industry because, I mean, every day or every week I say, I get, I have this little app on my phone where it gives me articles about specific things, you know, concrete and stuff like that, and I just scroll through it. Read articles and it seems like every week or every couple of weeks, there's just a new school from a new area creating a new, you know, more sustainable mix design or something they've used as a binder other than cement. they're just, there's so much new technology coming out of the industry. it's very interesting to be a part of it because it's an ever changing material. You kind of, you can be a part of, you know. New stuff, you know, new things in the industry that, you can either be creating it or you can just be helping and being a part of it. So that's what really interests me in the material is it's, it's still a new product. Like there's so many things you can do to it to really affect it and manipulate it to, for certain uses and things like that. 00:12:40 Carlos Ramos: To help out the, the audience, for those who haven't worked with concrete or, you know, really don't know what's in concrete, my understanding, the, there's three base materials to it. There's sand, there's gravel, and there's cement you just mentioned. Can you confirm that and then let us know how that all changes in these different uses and formulations. Like how does it change for sidewalk versus a vertical wall? 00:13:07 Joe DiBucci: Yes. So when it comes down to your mix design, like you said, there's those materials as well as water. so water is really important, and the amount of water really affects it. So the amount of water and the amount of cement, which is creating your binder, that really affects the strength, so depending on what you're trying to pour, if you're trying to pour a higher strength mix, you really want to keep that water content down, and if you want, you can always increase that cement content, and that's going to increase your strength, when you start to increase your cement content, then the sustainability factor comes into play. Everyone's really trying to get away from the cement. And they're coming out with new types of cement that are more sustainable and better for the environment to kind of keep the global carbon dioxide emissions down, just from the production of the cement. So a lot of people are trying to figure out different materials to use as the cement or creating new types of cement. so what's really interesting with the cement is this, this is fairly recent, about the past two years or so, it's really getting into effect right now into the industry. is there's a new cement and considered typically this cement and general cements like a Type I, Type I/II cement, this cement is considered a Type IL cement. So the Type I/II had a limit of about 5 percent limestone powder. Okay. So I guess I got to get into the little bit of it. 00:14:29 Sumer Beatty: That's okay. We were expecting it. Yeah. 00:14:31 Joe DiBucci: So. So with the cement production you get limestone, okay, and then you heat that up and then as it's going through the kiln heating up you start to have those chemical reactions, you start to emit carbon dioxide emissions into the atmosphere, and then also the process of heating up the kiln takes up a lot of energy as well as carbon dioxide emissions. So what they're doing is instead of using more cement, they're cutting back on the total cement content and they're putting a limestone powder in instead. So up to 15 percent is what's allowable right now. so what's happening right now in the industry is there's this new material. coming out and all these cement suppliers are starting to do it because it's more sustainable. Okay. Cause they're not heating up as much material to get the cement. They're just using the limestone powder, kind of like a filler, I guess you could say. So it's more sustainable. And then it's also cost savings on them because they don't have to use as much cement, to some degree, I guess you could say. I'm not a cement supplier. I don't really know that for sure, but that's just in theory would make sense. So, what's happening is all these cement suppliers are changing their cement, well, whoever gets their cement, they're kind of being forced to change to this Type IL, like, they're making all the concrete ready mix plants basically switch to Type IL, and so it's the same concept, they say it's a one to one ratio, same concept material wise, but what's happening is a lot of these contractors are Sometimes having a hard time, different finishing techniques are required, different wait times, things like that. The hardest part is when you start messing with the cement content, you really, it all depends on the type of limestone from the beginning. So the natural limestone, depending on what constitutes that limestone powder is going to manipulate and affect the mix. So right now it's kind of all over the place. It really depends on your manufacturer, I guess you could say, but it is more sustainable, because they're taking that cement content out and they're increasing using more so a limestone filler powder, to be a more sustainable material. So something like that. I mean, that's brand new in the industry. it's really cool to be a part of that. I mean, this is going to be in the industry for the next, you know, however long, and the really interesting thing is like Canada. And overseas in like Europe, they've been using it for the past 30 or 40 years and they've actually figured out how to use up to 30 to 40 percent of the limestone powder. And so we're having a hard time with up to 15 percent and then when you look over there and you're like, okay, they know something we don't know, or it's just a different material. I mean, it really comes back down to the raw material. Where are you getting that material? Things like that. So it's really interesting. so the mixed design kind of got off topic, way off topic on that. 00:17:17 Sumer Beatty: I'm glad you brought up sustainability because that is definitely something that a lot of people look at the footprint of, okay, we've got a lot of this, you know, material out there and, you know, there's an impact on the environment. So, you know, there's this, interesting avenue of let's change the concentration, let's try to reduce the impact that way. And then you also have to ask like, okay, if we weren't using concrete, what else would we be using in its place? And then what's the impact of that material, right? 00:17:45 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, it really comes. I mean, when you talk about sustainability, when I think about concrete, I think about the durability. If you have a very durable material that lasts 500 to a thousand years, I mean, that's very sustainable. if you're trying to make a material that's sustainable, but it only lasts 50 years, what's the good in that? Kind of going back to the Romans, I mean, they made Colosseum, the Pantheon, stuff like that. I mean, that's still standing from thousands of years ago. they don't go through the harsh winters that we do, but still in contrast, I mean, that was a very sustainable project, some would say, based off just the durability of it. So. Yeah, I guess sustainability, durability, but if you can really, if, if you want to manipulate that mix design, like I was saying, and trying to make it more sustainable, like the cement and then getting into like the aggregate, newer technology that they're trying to implement is using crushed concrete to actually getting old concrete, crushing it up, and then using that in the mix design as the aggregate or the stone, some would say. So that's another avenue of trying to make a more sustainable mix, things like that. All these things really interest me, trying to, trying to help the industry because it is one of the most used, I mean, if not the most used, it is the most used building material out there, but trying to figure out how to make it more sustainable since we use so much of it and it's not really going to go anywhere, unless we go back to making mass masonry, but the time it would take to do that just doesn't seem, I guess you could say. 00:19:20 Sumer Beatty: Well, and it seems like being in an instructor position here at the college, you're in a position to to make change on a higher level because you're not one person out in the field, you know, with the sustainability hat on trying to do the right thing. But now you're influencing students. So how does that trickle down into your instruction and maybe even the curriculum? 00:19:41 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. So, I mean, the influence, I mean, day one with the students, I try to give them like a brief introduction about the concrete, you know, like the newer technology, that usually interests a lot of people, a lot of students, and trying to hook them in the beginning to say like, oh yeah, this is a very interesting material. Like you could do a lot of things with it. one thing that I'm actually just starting to do in practice now is I'm starting to print out some of those articles I was telling you about. And then handled my class in the beginning of the class and doing like a little short, you know, discussion about it. Like, Hey, you know, this is a new material product, just wanted to show you guys, thought it was real interesting, you know, and so I got some good feedback from that. I think I'm going to keep doing that. just trying to influence, like you said, you know, trying to influence the industry, and affect, so hopefully they can influence others and just kind of like a snowball effect. So that's kind of what I enjoy, I guess, and kind of not just the sense of influencing, but also assisting and helping these students to get into the industry and be comfortable where they're at and be doing what they want to do, you know, connecting them with the correct, you know, career path, I guess you could say. 00:20:47 Sumer Beatty: Do you have a lot of students who went to career and technical education courses, like they went to CTCs or anything like that, or you have a unique introduction to, to the area that you ended up in because of your family business, but as I'm just was thinking about what, where those students maybe came from, how they were introduced to the career path of concrete science. 00:21:10 Joe DiBucci: So what's, what's. The interesting thing is a lot of the students that we're getting aren't having that, they don't have that background of going through a CTC or anything. They're just coming straight out of high school. And what's happening a lot is they're coming here typically for like a building construction because they don't know concrete. And then with the building construction, they take a general concrete course. That's typically what I'm teaching. And I'm trying to, you know, like I said, influence. Influence them in some way. And then typically we get some students that are interested in the program just from that course. and then they ta they usually tag it on with their CB building construction degree, and then they'll be able to get like two, a dual degree, with two associates, which a lot of students, the paths are kind of going that way. and the career, like the industry really likes that because you're having the building construction background as well as the concrete background. so like framing and things like that come in handy. so yeah, I guess not a lot of students really come from CTC, because my other fellow colleague, Frank Reber, he, did some research into that about all our fellow past students, and he said not a lot are really coming from the CTC, so. We were really gauging trying to go after the CTC schools to kind of educate them with the concrete science, but our new avenue, we're going to try to go after kind of like the high school counselors and kind of talking about them because they really influenced the high school students and just telling them about the opportunity for them and just in the industry and it's good, you know, good, really good career opportunities for growth and things like that. so yeah. 00:22:47 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, and it's not like Penn College saying, you know, we selfishly want you to come here for this program because we want students. It's the industry contacting us, right, and saying, those employers saying, where are these graduates? We want more graduates. That's how it's been. I remember talking to Frank a few years back. I'm sure it's the same, right? Yeah, same thing. You still have employers and, and these industry members saying. 00:23:10 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, like, I want two students. Can I get two students this year? Like, can I get students for internships? Things like that. And it's like, we don't have any more students left. We need more students. 00:23:20 Sumer Beatty: Right. So the opportunities are there. Someone is listening, a parent, a high school student, somebody looking for a career move. I mean, it sounds like that's an awesome opportunity. 00:23:31 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. Lots of opportunity. All 100 percent placement rate. All the past students in the degree, they're all in jobs right now. And, they're all enjoying it and they're all kind of all over the place in the industry, which is really cool. Just kind of getting their experience and whatnot and, yeah, it's cool to see where they go and I still keep in contact with a few, so. 00:23:51 Sumer Beatty: All over the place in terms of all over the country, all over the place in terms of they're in different industries or a little bit of both. 00:23:59 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, it really depends on where they've traveled or a lot of companies, like they might be located in Pennsylvania, but they might travel around the nation, doing specific jobs and stuff like that. It really depends on the company and then also the industry. So some are in ready mix, some are in the contracting area, some are doing quality control, stuff like that. 00:24:19 Sumer Beatty: Yeah, I was going to ask you what type of positions they end up, you know, taking after college or oftentimes before they're even finished. Like, so for example, like, okay, this construction farmer is charged with creating a bridge. So this individual with a concrete science background will be brought into, make recommendations on the mixture that's appropriate for it or like I'm just guessing here is this? 00:24:44 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, so it really depends on the company and how they really want to treat your treat the new hires. A lot of companies are putting them through some sort of like training program, and they're realizing they have that general idea of concrete, what it is, how it works, and they're kind of grooming them into more of like a management, project to understand the concrete and be able to, Lead people that have that general background knowledge to be able to understand the mixture and then also just understand working with people and kind of leading them. So that would be one avenue. Another avenue would be like quality control. So testing concrete. So a lot of people are doing that to where before the concrete gets delivered to certain jobs, they have to get tested to be within specific specs. So that would be another avenue. and that can get into like the mixed designs and doing mixed designs and figuring out what type of, you know, how much cement's going in, how much stone, sand, things like that, or, and then that typically will lead to kind of like a batch plant management. So you kind of have to know how to, So we actually do that through our program. We do a testing course and we actually let our students, they get a certification in testing ACI grade one field technician, so. That's a good opportunity for them. A lot of students are going that way, but there's just so many opportunities for them. and learning in the program, you kind of learn all the different industries and then you kind of get to choose which way you want to go. there's a lot of different avenues. 00:26:21 Sumer Beatty: And it seems like compared to somebody who's, you know, maybe fresh out of high school that would just jump into a position like this, that they would have all this, somebody coming to Penn College or having a degree in concrete science would come in with this background. You said people are going into management, you know, and they're looking for leaders. So they've got the technical side of things, but then that opportunity to lead a team or to be in management administration. So. They've kind of got both sides covered. 00:26:53 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. Yeah. And they're getting real world experience, which is great, especially when it comes down to management and things like that. Yeah. And just having that background knowledge, you know, general knowledge and understanding concrete as a building material. 00:27:07 Carlos Ramos: And coming out that first year, they're, they're making really good salaries, right? 00:27:11 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. They're up there. They're, 60, 65 plus, if not more really depends on the company. a lot of companies are. Paying for people to move to certain places. some companies are actually looking into like reimbursing schooling. so if they get an intern, they really like the intern and the intern still has a year left, they might say, Hey, you know, we'll help pay for credit or a couple of credits of your courses just to say, Hey, you know, you're going to come back and work for us. So yeah, the salary's definitely there. it's a great opportunity. It's not always just about the money, 00:27:46 Carlos Ramos: But if you can get compensated for doing what you'd like to do, that's a bonus. 00:27:52 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, the big thing is the industry is just getting old. So a lot of people are retiring and they need to fill the shoes of people that are retiring. And if they can have someone that has that general knowledge and that hands on knowledge, they really enjoy that. They like that. The students, the companies are enjoying having students that have that, you know, hands on, getting their hands dirty, like that attitude, I guess you could say, and then also having the background knowledge. I mean, you're learning the best of both worlds, so. It's good for them. And then the salary, that's like a bonus. That's how I look at it. It's like, okay, I'm getting, I'm enjoying this real much. And then I'm also, you know, getting paid pretty well. 00:28:32 Carlos Ramos: And you said stacking that, the, the two associates, it's not like you take two years of one, two years of another, you stack that and you can get it done in three years, right? 00:28:39 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, typically three years. And then some students, if they're in the CB or it's, if you take the CB and you want the BRM, which is the Residential management as well, that would be a four year and some students are doing that as well as the concrete science and typically getting done in about five years. So coming out with two associates and then also a bachelor in the management side of things, which is also great to have, you know. 00:29:04 Carlos Ramos: Right. And then you mentioned the, the applied technology, bachelor's degree, which that can be completed online. that, that portion of it or is that still mostly on campus? 00:29:15 Joe DiBucci: So the applied technology as in the bachelors you're saying? Yeah. So the concrete science itself, the science itself is kind of like a hybrid course. So when you talk about the concrete science, it's kind of like a half half. when it comes under bachelor of applied technology, that was just kind of me encompassing my two associates. And then also adding on my minor, because the minor was needed for the higher level courses. and then that was just an opportunity for me to learn more about sustainability and kind of solar panels and things like that. 00:29:45 Sumer Beatty: I think the minors are something people don't often think about. I mean, at least here at Penn College, we have all of these different opportunities in terms of bachelor's and associates and dual degrees, but I think minors get lost in the shuffle. I don't know how many students are. I mean, maybe it's just me, but I feel like we don't talk about minors enough. It's a great way to sort of curate that degree that you want without having to stay an extra year or something like that. 00:30:10 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, and then if you have, like I said, kind of like having a collaboration of all your degrees, you kind of, you kind of. get to look at it in a different perspective. when I did my minor in sustainable design, the first semester, I had some classes. And so like these students in architecture, they're like in block or like sections. So like they all know each other. And so then I come in there, this concrete guy, and everyone's kind of like looking at me like, who's this guy? Like, where's he coming from? Like, Oh, I'm doing a minor in sustainable design. so a lot of these students had like ability to work on like AutoCAD or the, just the using the computers and more experience than me, I guess you could say, because I didn't take the intro classes like they did. So a lot of the work they were doing on the computer, I'm over there just hand drawing, like all these like designs, all these designs. But I just had a different perspective. I mean, a lot of my sustainable projects in that course, it was a community planning course. I've really implemented concrete. Like I try to find the most sustainable concrete. I was like, my sidewalks are made out of this concrete that actually creates a less polluted area and with the type of mixture it is. And so I found it online, learned about it and then, you know, implemented in my class. So that was cool. A lot of the students were I think they thought I was kind of concrete crazy, I guess, because everything was concrete. so yeah, it was cool. 00:31:31 Carlos Ramos: And you mentioned community. Our students actually go out and do community projects too, right? 00:31:35 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. So we actually, so, in the concrete fundamentals course, which is a BCT 238, that's like the intro course to concrete. So we do a lot of on campus pours. So if you guys look around the campus, a lot of the concrete poured, is typically the school, typically the students. if the concrete's falling apart, that wasn't us. But, yeah, it's a great opportunity to experience, the real world experience for the students is great. A lot of students enjoy it. Some students, you know, aren't the best, biggest fans of it because they think it's like a free labor type thing. but they really have to look at it in the sense of this is experience, real world experience, and you have no like liability. The students have no liability. That's kind of all on me. You know what I mean? Me trying to make sure everything goes smooth and no one gets hurt. The concrete's good and straight and flat, things like that, but the challenge for me was trying to make it enjoyable for the students that, you know, viewed it as labor. So what I did, what I started to do at least in the classes was I started to put them in like teams and create some sort of like competition amongst the students and say, Hey, you know, Who's going to have the straightest sidewalk or section of sidewalk and created that competition within the classroom to kind of get those students more excited and actually want to do the work and do it at a high level and create a good product and be proud of it. I mean, these students are going to come back in 10, 20 years and they're gonna be like, Hey. I did that sidewalk. 00:33:08 Sumer Beatty: That's what I was thinking. 00:33:08 Joe DiBucci: It's a nice looking sidewalk. 00:33:10 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. 00:33:12 Joe DiBucci: I do that still. I mean, when I was a student, I remember a couple of sidewalks we did and I'm just like, yeah, I remember I did this or, you know, I was a teacher's assistant for the one and I just, well, it's one of my proud moments where I kind of, that was my first opportunity to kind of show students, as a student, you know, how to pour concrete. We did a specific technique on the sidewalk and every time I drive by, I kind of, you know, peek over. I'm like, how's that sidewalk doing over there? Oh, it looks good. Okay, good. 00:33:38 Carlos Ramos: So now I'm going to have to go around, walk around campus, find, identify all the different techniques and see if I can find those patterns. And, you know, I'll watch the students as they're pouring. 00:33:48 Sumer Beatty: Do they sign a little corner? Like when your parents are pouring concrete at home, they're like, okay, you can put your finger in there. So it's in there forever. 00:33:56 Joe DiBucci: So there are a couple of sidewalks where we stamped, the concrete signs. It just says Concrete Science, PCT. So those are, there's a couple, I think there's one by Kimball's, that they've done, but we're going to try to do that more often. We don't do it as with the stamp that we had broke. so we kind of have to make a new one. But it's good to do that and kind of that's a sense of, you know, being proud of your work. You know, you're showing it off like, hey, we did this, and I hope that concrete lasts a long time, you know, dirt back to the sustainability, durability. How long is it going to last? 00:34:28 Sumer Beatty: And it's not all just completely functional concrete, right? I know there was a club. It's been a few years, but they were making like decorative stones that some pieces like they glowed in the dark or there were a little flecks of color in, so there's an opportunity to be creative. 00:34:45 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, decorative. I mean, the aesthetic, the aesthetic opportunity with concrete as a building material, because you get the aesthetic ability as well as the structural ability. So then that's where you get into making furniture, tables, things like that. That's something that really interested me. and I enjoyed doing that, on my, in my free time, things like that, trying to mess around, make some sort of artsy looking crazy concrete table or something. But yeah, there was a club that was the Concrete Design Club. so as I was a student, I actually, I was the one that started that, and now I'm full circle back, I'm actually the advisor for that club. so it's great to kind of see that and kind of see it still living. You know, after I graduated, there were very minimal amount of students in the club. So I was a little worried, but I helped out as I graduated, kind of like a mentor in the industry. and then they had some great leaders that kind of took charge and they continued it and I came back and they were still, you know, still kicking. 00:35:43 Sumer Beatty: Nice. 00:35:44 Joe DiBucci: So yeah. 00:35:45 Sumer Beatty: Do they have anything, any projects coming up, any fundraisers or anything like that? 00:35:49 Joe DiBucci: So they're going to have a fundraiser in the spring, it's going to be a succulent plant fundraiser. So they're more, they're making little concrete succulent planters, we're going to be selling succulents. so that'll be a good fundraiser for the club. A lot of the fundraisers are geared towards just making money for the club to be able to purchase material for the club to kind of experience concrete in an aesthetic manner. So kind of create projects and things like that. Yeah. So we have certain club members that have ideas and then we say, yeah, let's try it out. You know, what's the worst that can happen? You know, it breaks. Okay. We'll try it again. You know, so having the material for them and having the funds to be able to afford the materials for them to experiment, that's kind of like the go to, I guess you could say, or what we're trying to strive for with the fundraisers. And then we try to do a lot of on campus things. we. Built a pretty big table that's right outside the BTC and the concrete science. That was last semester. That was a big project. had some ups and downs there. Had made a little mistake. The students made a mistake. I didn't catch it. I should have caught it. But we rebounded, we made a fix. The, the benches were a little too short, so when you sat down, you were like, probably like two or three feet away from the tabletop, . And so I'm like, okay, someone didn't think of this base design enough. so that was a, you know. learning lesson for me as, you know, an instructor and for the students, I kind of told him, I was like, you got to double check, you know, you really have to worry about a sketch. You know, I really want to see that it's going to all work rather than just jumping right into it. But they did just jump right into it, the two students that kind of took charge of that. They were freshmen. they just joined the club. We told them we had this opportunity to build this table and they were like, Oh, yeah. Okay, first day they formed it up, you know, and so it was great to see that and see the, the drive of them to do it. And then the mistake was kind of like a laugh, you know, and I kind of laughed about it now, because we fixed it and we made the bench a little bit bigger. So it's, you know, usable now. It wasn't not usable. It just wasn't, just didn't look right. It wasn't really, Wasn't right. 00:37:49 Sumer Beatty: Probably one of those things though, as the creator of it, you see every little, you know, issue with it. Whereas if some one of us would walk by, we would be like, that looks fantastic. 00:37:58 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. Yeah. That's 00:37:59 Sumer Beatty: I think a lot of 00:38:00 Joe DiBucci: nitpicking. Yeah. 00:38:01 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. That's okay. I mean, that's all good. That's why we. We're good at what we do, but we just naturally see our, you know, mistakes because we're the ones that made them. 00:38:08 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, that's how I feel. I'm really kind of like a perfectionist, you know, so I try to make everything perfect. But like you said, it all really depends on your taste and your understanding. Some people are just not, I don't want to say oblivious to it, but they just don't see certain things like, like I see, I guess with concrete especially. But projects, another big project that this club is doing, it's going to be hopefully started by the spring, depending on the weather, over by the Field House. They're looking to do like an outdoor area, kind of like a, kind of calling it like the concrete playground, just a bunch of concrete. Okay. So you can make anything out of concrete. So we're going to try cornhole boards, hopefully like a ping pong table exterior. some benches, probably like a table or so, kind of give the students a hangout spot. and then cornhole's a big thing, and so having something stationary there for the students. and so yeah, that's something that's kind of on, in the works right now, and that's kind of one of the biggest projects for the spring for the club. So I'm excited to be a part of it, and also kind of guide the students. As an advisor, I really don't like, you know, doing a lot of the work. I kind of just want to guide the students, but sometimes they just need a little, you know. kicking the butt, you know, like, come on, you know, like, let's get this started. So 00:39:26 Sumer Beatty: I think we're going to wind things down, but I have to ask a couple questions here. and fun, fun questions. So we were taking your photo and we jokingly said, you need a prop. And the photographer says, Oh, it'd be cool if you were holding some concrete and you were like, well, I do have some concrete with me. And I thought he's kidding. Still, he pulls out these crystals and concrete out of your pocket. You're just carrying them around. Like, can you tell us about that? I thought that was really fun. So like, we kind of talked about crystals and what they mean to you and. Yeah, so I'd love to hear more about that. 00:40:04 Joe DiBucci: So I've always been interested in, I mean, rocks, as well as crystals, and then, you know, concrete is just kind of a bunch of rocks glued together, with cement as the binder. So kind of, that's kind of something I like doing in my free time is just kind of experimenting, and just making knickknacks out of concrete. big thing is necklaces. usually always wearing a concrete necklace, just something about it, makes me calm, you know? and then sometimes I hold some concrete, not every day, but majority of the day. if you come up to me, I'll probably have a piece of concrete in my pocket. . 00:40:38 Sumer Beatty: So was it straight up concrete or was there a crystal in it? 00:40:41 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, so there's different crystals in it, depending on the type Okay. I made, I guess. but just. Being able to make different things like that, that's enjoyable to me, calms me, soothes me. 00:40:55 Sumer Beatty: It's very smooth. I'm holding it. It looks like a gear. Yeah, 00:40:58 Joe DiBucci: I polished it. So I actually carve them and polish, that's actually carved with a Dremel, and then I polish them and kind of make them look pretty. that one still needs a little work, but it's just, you know, something for me. So it doesn't gotta look real nice. 00:41:14 Carlos Ramos: And what's the crystal that's in the middle? 00:41:16 Joe DiBucci: so that one's selenite, selenite. I'm not too sure how to pronounce it correctly, but that's nice because it's just kind of see through, so I thought that was very interesting. 00:41:25 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, and you've got, flecks of green and gold through here. 00:41:28 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, a little malachite, and then, yeah, a little bit of gold. So a little bit of everything in there. 00:41:36 Sumer Beatty: And then you had two of them. Oh, you want to see the other one? Yes. If you don't mind. I mean, we're here for it, right? 00:41:42 Joe DiBucci: You guys didn't know you're going to get a show. 00:41:43 Sumer Beatty: No, of course it's show and tell. And we're passing them around here and we're feeling the surface. 00:41:49 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. You feel powerful when you, when you hold them, right? 00:41:51 Sumer Beatty: Yeah. And it's not heavy. I, if you're carrying this in your pocket, it's off. This is a pancake thin piece of, of concrete. 00:41:59 Carlos Ramos: About the size of a challenge coin. yeah. 00:42:03 Joe DiBucci: Yeah. 00:42:04 Carlos Ramos: Yeah, four, four crystals in the middle and then some, flecks of Other material? 00:42:10 Joe DiBucci: Oh yeah, all sorts of stuff in there. All sorts of goodies. 00:42:14 Sumer Beatty: You know you love concrete if you're carrying it around in your pocket. I just thought that was really fun. I had to ask. 00:42:22 Joe DiBucci: Yeah, I can't get away from it, I guess. That's good. Yeah, I'm attracted to. A lot of people say crystals attract you too, so it's a little bit of both. Yeah. And concrete is a rock, so you can kind of say it's crystal if you wanted to. It's a man made rock, so that's always how I look at it. 00:42:39 Sumer Beatty: Very nice. So as we close things down, is there any parting words of advice you want to offer? Anything you want to leave our listeners with? Just that exclamation point on the conversation. There's a heavy order, tall order here to fill. 00:42:56 Joe DiBucci: I'd say, I guess think about Concrete as A material that can do a lot of things, I guess, don't, if you're looking for a career, it's a great opportunity for you, and if you're interested in just playing with concrete, it's pretty fun to play with, you know, you can make some things out of it. You kind of make it into certain shapes and stuff like that. it's kind of like baking a cake. But you're baking a rock. 00:43:24 Carlos Ramos: I think that's the title for the episode. Baking a rock. It's kind of like baking a cake, but you're baking a rock. 00:43:30 Sumer Beatty: Okay. That strays a bit away from my typical format of titles, but we can workshop that. Also, thank you So much for being with us today. We had a lot of fun, lots of laughs. 00:43:42 Joe DiBucci: This was a lot of fun. Thanks guys for reaching out. 00:43:47 Sumer Beatty: Thanks for hanging out with us today. 00:43:49 Carlos Ramos: Don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe wherever you'd listen to your podcasts. 00:43:53 Sumer Beatty: Check out our show notes for bookmarks to your favorite sections and links to resources that we mention in today's episode. 00:43:59 Carlos Ramos: You can also find past episodes and see what's on deck for upcoming ones at pct.edu/podcast. 00:44:06 Sumer Beatty: And of course, we are open to your thoughts, ideas, and suggestions, so send those over at podcast@pct.edu. 00:44:15 Carlos Ramos: It's been real. 00:44:16 Sumer Beatty: Catch you next time.